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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 7074729" data-attributes="member: 6696971">See my post directly above to  [MENTION=16814]Ovinomancer[/MENTION] as it addresses a lot of this.  I'll comment a bit more though because it was a conversation with me that you're referring to on mapping a Dungeon World play excerpt to 5e (which is, interestingly enough, the primary premise of my engagement with this thread...along with mapping it to B/X).  You're referring to the <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?531049-Judgement-calls-vs-quot-railroading-quot&p=7073160&viewfull=1#post7073160" target="_blank">"sled and the glacial crevasse hazard" scene</a> that I splocked in response to  [MENTION=6785785]hawkeyefan[/MENTION] 's request for further context above.The problem with mapping that scene (and a host of others including the one that I'm engaging with in this thread) has to do with all of the stuff that I mentioned in the post to Ovinomancer.  That stuff happens organically and reliably/consistently as an inevitable outgrowth of all that stuff I mentioned.  5e does not have an analogue for that stuff.  It doesn't possess an analogue for most of that stuff (and what it kind of has an analogue for isn't integrated holistically into the system like it is in DW).  If you just go with the most basic fundamental part (2/3 of all Move outcomes resulting in success with costs/complications/hard bargains/ugly choices), 5e doesn't have it as its core resolution mechanic feature.  Even if you play with the Success with Complication module in the the DMG (which I do and I spread it out to 3 numbers rather than 2), (a) the maths don't remotely line up and (b) there is no analogue to the formalized complication handling procedures in DW.  The breakdown of total agency, and the nature of each (System Agency, GM Agency, and Player Agency), between the two systems are profoundly different.So net:1)  Just by applying the play procedures, the odds of that spiraling/snowballing situation turning up (which turns up constantly in DW, pretty much every scene) as a result of mere organic play isn't going to happen in 5e at anything nearing the same level of frequency.  This is where GM Force/Illusionism comes in to increase that frequency to a more (table/GM-specific) palatable frequency.2)  GM mental overhead is extraordinarily different when running such a scenario in both systems.  3)  Player decision trees, interaction with the basic resolution mechanics/resource paradigms, and their own possible moves are extremely different in both systems.Sum total, due to the severe divergence in respective System Agency/GM Agency/Player Agency (type/kind and % of total agency), 5e just can't churn out something like that with anything nearing that sort of frequency while that is a pillar (perhaps THE pillar of Dungeon World's play paradigm) of DW, while simultaneously the feel and "work" put in for both player and GM is very, very different.</blockquote>

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