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Judgement calls vs "railroading"
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<blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 7074961" data-attributes="member: 6785785"><p>Sure....my point is that framing entails the GM making decisions that can steer the game. Your example of the PC who can shapechange into a falcon being imprisoned....you can frame the situation with there being a window or a small port in the door for the falcon to fly through thereby allowing the PC to escape, or you can frame it so that the door is one continuous piece, meaning the the PC will remain imprisoned and must figure out another means of escape. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I didn't say a map was a flowchart....I said they had similarities, and that both an RPG map and an RPG story can be designed with this idea in mind. I'll ignore the bit about it not being a recipe either since I didn't mention recipe. </p><p></p><p>If you take an RPG map at it's most basic, it is a series of sites connected by lines, yes? </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Okay, understood. But then doesn't this mean that the players and the GM are basically determining the story elements ahead of time? Wouldn't this then be a mix of GM Force and Player Force? </p><p></p><p>And if so, is it that different from my 5E game where my players had as much input into what we played as I did before we began? I've gone to them for a good amount of the content I've used. I would still likely put that content somewhere in the 2/3 GM and 1/3 player ratio, or thereabouts. </p><p></p><p>How are the two approaches so different in the "play to find out" sense? </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't disagree with this. I think that drama is more a result of the fiction and player buy-in to it and with other narrative elements not unique to RPGs....but I will say that system mechanics can be designed to reinforce those elements. And from your descriptions, I would agree with you that DW and similar games seem to be mechanically designed with player agency in mind. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, I tend not to think it takes as much effort as all that. And I also find it fun. But generally, based on the players I DM for and the campaign we are running, I tend to have a good idea of what they'll do....which way they may take things. They actually don't tend to move very far afield from the story I have in mind. They are invested in it and actively add to it all the time. They veer a bit, and I like that....but they always go back to the main story elements at some point. </p><p></p><p>So it really isn't that hard to have a decision point, and then kind of loosely come up with the possible choices they would make, and then consider what the outcomes would be. I then jot down some of these outcomes, and then see what they do. If it's something I haven't planned on, then I come up with things on the fly....but that little bit of prep that I did in jotting down ideas is usually enough of a foundation to be able to facilitate a totally unexpected choice or tactic. </p><p></p><p>This is why I look at my approach as a blend of GM driven and player driven. I see elements of both.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="hawkeyefan, post: 7074961, member: 6785785"] Sure....my point is that framing entails the GM making decisions that can steer the game. Your example of the PC who can shapechange into a falcon being imprisoned....you can frame the situation with there being a window or a small port in the door for the falcon to fly through thereby allowing the PC to escape, or you can frame it so that the door is one continuous piece, meaning the the PC will remain imprisoned and must figure out another means of escape. I didn't say a map was a flowchart....I said they had similarities, and that both an RPG map and an RPG story can be designed with this idea in mind. I'll ignore the bit about it not being a recipe either since I didn't mention recipe. If you take an RPG map at it's most basic, it is a series of sites connected by lines, yes? Okay, understood. But then doesn't this mean that the players and the GM are basically determining the story elements ahead of time? Wouldn't this then be a mix of GM Force and Player Force? And if so, is it that different from my 5E game where my players had as much input into what we played as I did before we began? I've gone to them for a good amount of the content I've used. I would still likely put that content somewhere in the 2/3 GM and 1/3 player ratio, or thereabouts. How are the two approaches so different in the "play to find out" sense? I don't disagree with this. I think that drama is more a result of the fiction and player buy-in to it and with other narrative elements not unique to RPGs....but I will say that system mechanics can be designed to reinforce those elements. And from your descriptions, I would agree with you that DW and similar games seem to be mechanically designed with player agency in mind. Well, I tend not to think it takes as much effort as all that. And I also find it fun. But generally, based on the players I DM for and the campaign we are running, I tend to have a good idea of what they'll do....which way they may take things. They actually don't tend to move very far afield from the story I have in mind. They are invested in it and actively add to it all the time. They veer a bit, and I like that....but they always go back to the main story elements at some point. So it really isn't that hard to have a decision point, and then kind of loosely come up with the possible choices they would make, and then consider what the outcomes would be. I then jot down some of these outcomes, and then see what they do. If it's something I haven't planned on, then I come up with things on the fly....but that little bit of prep that I did in jotting down ideas is usually enough of a foundation to be able to facilitate a totally unexpected choice or tactic. This is why I look at my approach as a blend of GM driven and player driven. I see elements of both. [/QUOTE]
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