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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Xetheral" data-source="post: 7078673" data-attributes="member: 6802765">It's absolutely true that immersion and verisimilitude can be enhanced or damaged by different things for different players. It's also true, however, that we might instead be using the same labels "immersion" and "verisimilitude" to refer to entirely different feelings.Normally, I'd consider the risk of the latter extremely small, but since we appear to be using other terms to mean different things in this thread, in this case I consider it a distinct possibility.Continuing an example from my previous post, the term "player-driven" appears to mean radically different things to pemerton and me. A game where the GM deliberately stymies player intent on a failed die roll (and is required to do so by the mechanics, no less), is incompatible with my usage of the term "player-driven". My usage is in no way privileged, so, since pemerton's usage differs, the term clearly has more usages than I was aware of. But until we can find a shared definition, I don't see how the term is a useful label in discussion.Similarly, given that at  [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION]'s and  [MENTION=16586]Campbell[/MENTION]'s tables immersion and verisilimitude are enhanced by the same factors that detract from those feelings at my table, I think there is good cause to believe we may be defining the terms differently.I'm going to disagree in the abstract. I think the term usually has descriptive value as a measure of degree rather than as an absolute. I think it's a useful concept when comparing (e.g.) a sandbox game with an adventure path in similar styles of GMing. I assume the the term has similar descriptive value when comparing two of pemerton's games in his style of GMing. Until this thread, I would have thought the term was useful to compare two styles of GMing, but because our styles are so different, I just don't see how to meaningfully use the term to compare a game in my style with a game in his style.</blockquote>

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