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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7080218" data-attributes="member: 29398">Where sometimes I don't want them to know right now that anything is at stake; they might find out later...or might not...depending on how things go.Yeah, I'm not at all sold on systems where OOC resources can influence die rolls like that.Which in the game is modeled by asking the DM.So just ask for more details (preferably those specific ones relevant to what you're doing e.g. don't ask about the number of tables in the bar if your main interest is whether there's a hook or not) until you get the relevant info you need.Some players will take this too far and ask for descriptions of absolutely everything whether relevant or not; some DMs will also take this too far by proactively describing everything whether relevant or not.  Both of these just waste time.Fair enough, as long as the DM always has right of veto.Again, though - what if the situation dictates that it not be known what's at stake.  OK, there's hooks...you hang your cloak on one...now I'm going to secretly roll to see if a) your contact noticed this and b) if anyone else that might care noticed this.Whyever not?  Can't the play be driven by greater forces (external plots, wars, impending apocalypse, etc.) than the characters' own angst?And in those few of that list I'm familiar with the motivation is usually external.  Sure Luke ends up trying to redeem his father (though both father and son are pretty angst-laden anyway; Anakin in the prequels is just painful) but his main motivation is to right the galaxy's wrongs once he learns about them.  Frodo takes the ring due to external pressure - it has to be done and during that fractious council meeting he feels he's the only one who can do it.  The X-men are mostly fighting for their own survival and to prove they belong in the world (in the movies, I don't know the comics at all).  Arthurian romance is just more personal angst against a different backdrop and certainly not enough to hang an entire campaign on (though romance etc. is certainly welcome to arise as a sidebar in the ongoing game).I'd rather have a campaign where the PCs slowly but surely enmesh themselves in something much bigger than their own lives, and then play that out wherever it may go.  LotR does this very well with Frodo...well, with all the Hobbits, come to that.  Star Wars does it with Luke, if not quite as seamlessly.And The Hobbit - all of Bilbo's motivation is external to begin with; sure he discovers himself as well as things go along, but that's not his reason for adventuring.In my games, most adventurers I've seen played are motivated by either sheer greed, by wanting to improve their social standing (e.g. reach name level), or by being recruited into an existing party.Or just watch what the PC does and make mental note e.g. in the case of this wizard I'd be formulating my own ideas on its alignment after this without regard to what's written on the character sheet.Lan-"when in doubt, ask the DM; if still in doubt, have another beer and try again"-efan</blockquote>

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