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<blockquote data-quote="Maxperson" data-source="post: 7084059" data-attributes="member: 23751">So far what you have described is that the skill challenge established that the advisor outed himself, and that the player mistakenly thought that the advisor attempting mitigation negated that outing.&nbsp; You then described yourself backing off based on that player's mistaken perception.&nbsp; Since then you have repeatedly said that the challenge to out the advisor also prevents mitigation, even though one doesn't affect the other since they are two separate events.&nbsp; No amount of mitigation would have prevented or negated that outing.Except that it's not like that at all.&nbsp; I'll re-write the last paragraph to explain what it is really like.* Unbeknownst to the players, because they failed to ask the question when they cast Contact Other Plane, the troll has a brother who finds out about the death of Grgash at the hands of the PCs.&nbsp; He sets out to try to kill them and bring back the treasure(mitigation).&nbsp; The possibilities are that he could fail(no mitigation), get the treasure back, but fail to kill the PCs(partial mitigation) or kill them and get the treasure(full mitigation).&nbsp; However, no amount of that attempted mitigation can negate the success of the original action. They did in fact succeed at killing Grgash and getting his treasure out of the dungeon.No it isn't.&nbsp; It's simply the game progressing in a reasonable manner.&nbsp; They didn't find out about the brother who existed prior to their planned kill and snatch of the troll's treasure, and so mitigation could possibly happen.&nbsp; Likewise, the advisor has a brain which existed prior to the party's forced outing, and so mitigation could possibly happen.&nbsp; It's not cheating the players out of anything, and it certainly isn't abuse of any kind.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Maxperson, post: 7084059, member: 23751"] So far what you have described is that the skill challenge established that the advisor outed himself, and that the player mistakenly thought that the advisor attempting mitigation negated that outing. You then described yourself backing off based on that player's mistaken perception. Since then you have repeatedly said that the challenge to out the advisor also prevents mitigation, even though one doesn't affect the other since they are two separate events. No amount of mitigation would have prevented or negated that outing. Except that it's not like that at all. I'll re-write the last paragraph to explain what it is really like. * Unbeknownst to the players, because they failed to ask the question when they cast Contact Other Plane, the troll has a brother who finds out about the death of Grgash at the hands of the PCs. He sets out to try to kill them and bring back the treasure(mitigation). The possibilities are that he could fail(no mitigation), get the treasure back, but fail to kill the PCs(partial mitigation) or kill them and get the treasure(full mitigation). However, no amount of that attempted mitigation can negate the success of the original action. They did in fact succeed at killing Grgash and getting his treasure out of the dungeon. No it isn't. It's simply the game progressing in a reasonable manner. They didn't find out about the brother who existed prior to their planned kill and snatch of the troll's treasure, and so mitigation could possibly happen. Likewise, the advisor has a brain which existed prior to the party's forced outing, and so mitigation could possibly happen. It's not cheating the players out of anything, and it certainly isn't abuse of any kind. [/QUOTE]

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