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Judgement calls vs "railroading"
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7085178" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>Two things:</p><p></p><p>(1) The PC is also epic level, 25 as it happens (I just rechecked the <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?353496-First-time-godslayers-PCs-kill-Torog" target="_blank">actual play post</a>).</p><p></p><p>(2) You are midsescribing the consequence. The familiar was not killed, to respawn after a short rest. The familiar was shut down until the PC performed a ritual to remove Vecna's influence over his Eye, and hence over the familiar. The PC was able to do this once <a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?355600-Session-report-(Apect-of)-Vecna-defeated-demon-bargained-with" target="_blank">the PCs had defeated an Aspect of Vecna</a>. Looking at the date stamps for the respective posts, that's about 3 months later, which would be in the neighbourhood of half-a-dozen sessions.</p><p></p><p>In the thread that [MENTION=6688277]Sadras[/MENTION] is recalling this episode from, the general view of other posters (I can't remember what Sadras's particular view was) was that, so far from <em>softaballing</em>, it was unfair to impose such a consequence on a player in the context of a <em>success</em> - ie a successful check in a skill challenge that allowed diverting the souls from Vecna to the Raven Queen.</p><p></p><p>They also thought it was unfair to impose a consequence which the rules of the game don't expressly provide for (ie there is no formally-defined <em>your familiar is shut down beyond the duration of a short rest</em> condition).</p><p></p><p>Whereas my view was, and remains, that at all times the player knew that by implanting the Eye into his imp the PC had made himself hostage to Vecna, at least to some extent; and that he (both PC and player) knew, when he thwarted Vecna, that he was taking a risk of retribution.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7085178, member: 42582"] Two things: (1) The PC is also epic level, 25 as it happens (I just rechecked the [url=http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?353496-First-time-godslayers-PCs-kill-Torog]actual play post[/url]). (2) You are midsescribing the consequence. The familiar was not killed, to respawn after a short rest. The familiar was shut down until the PC performed a ritual to remove Vecna's influence over his Eye, and hence over the familiar. The PC was able to do this once [url=http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?355600-Session-report-(Apect-of)-Vecna-defeated-demon-bargained-with]the PCs had defeated an Aspect of Vecna[/url]. Looking at the date stamps for the respective posts, that's about 3 months later, which would be in the neighbourhood of half-a-dozen sessions. In the thread that [MENTION=6688277]Sadras[/MENTION] is recalling this episode from, the general view of other posters (I can't remember what Sadras's particular view was) was that, so far from [I]softaballing[/I], it was unfair to impose such a consequence on a player in the context of a [I]success[/I] - ie a successful check in a skill challenge that allowed diverting the souls from Vecna to the Raven Queen. They also thought it was unfair to impose a consequence which the rules of the game don't expressly provide for (ie there is no formally-defined [I]your familiar is shut down beyond the duration of a short rest[/I] condition). Whereas my view was, and remains, that at all times the player knew that by implanting the Eye into his imp the PC had made himself hostage to Vecna, at least to some extent; and that he (both PC and player) knew, when he thwarted Vecna, that he was taking a risk of retribution. [/QUOTE]
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