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Judgement calls vs "railroading"
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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7085657" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>OK, now this (quotes below) is a lot more enlightening. Still have some questions, however...</p><p>What I've been wondering is whether the advisor is able to* continue pursuing those tattered agendae after the defeat by the PCs?</p><p></p><p>* - or would be able to, had he not then lost a combat immediately following. For these purposes I'm going to intentionally ignore that and go on the hypothetical premise that the combat did not occur, as having the advisor still functional gives more worth to the discussion.</p><p></p><p>That's a system fault, in that the system is constraining you-as-DM in a diplomatic or social situation where it shouldn't. A physical situation, such as picking a lock or bending a gate, is different - you give it your best try and you fail or succeed - and that's that. Diplomatic/social situations are by their very nature way more fluid and - barring someone somehow being entirely removed from proceedings - are almost invariably open-ended as opposed to definitely resolvable, just like in the real world.</p><p></p><p>Here, the socially-defeated advisor (again, ignoring the combat) should still have options open to him. He can try to change the Baron's perception of him (remember, opinions aren't always carved in stone either and can change - the Baron's just changed his view of the advisor once, what's to prevent him changing it again later?), or he can go and round up his goblin army and try the military approach, or he can let himself get captured and then foment rebellion with his fellow prisoners, or he can fade into the background and then hire some bards to spread malicious rumours and innuendoes about the PCs...or the Baron, for all that.</p><p></p><p>And we're all forgetting that in theory the Baron himself, who is another major player in the scene, might have his own agenda. We don't know the Baron's opinion of the PCs going in, for example; or whether he's trying to pump the advisor's tires in order to make him a better match for his daughter - or his rival's daughter; or whether he thinks the advisor's in fact a bloody nuisance and will leap at anything that'll help get rid of him.</p><p></p><p>Not ever? Or just not right away? There's a fairly big difference.</p><p></p><p>Lan-"and we haven't even asked yet whether the advisor, though underhanded and scheming, is in fact the good guy trying to oust an even nastier Baron"-efan</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 7085657, member: 29398"] OK, now this (quotes below) is a lot more enlightening. Still have some questions, however... What I've been wondering is whether the advisor is able to* continue pursuing those tattered agendae after the defeat by the PCs? * - or would be able to, had he not then lost a combat immediately following. For these purposes I'm going to intentionally ignore that and go on the hypothetical premise that the combat did not occur, as having the advisor still functional gives more worth to the discussion. That's a system fault, in that the system is constraining you-as-DM in a diplomatic or social situation where it shouldn't. A physical situation, such as picking a lock or bending a gate, is different - you give it your best try and you fail or succeed - and that's that. Diplomatic/social situations are by their very nature way more fluid and - barring someone somehow being entirely removed from proceedings - are almost invariably open-ended as opposed to definitely resolvable, just like in the real world. Here, the socially-defeated advisor (again, ignoring the combat) should still have options open to him. He can try to change the Baron's perception of him (remember, opinions aren't always carved in stone either and can change - the Baron's just changed his view of the advisor once, what's to prevent him changing it again later?), or he can go and round up his goblin army and try the military approach, or he can let himself get captured and then foment rebellion with his fellow prisoners, or he can fade into the background and then hire some bards to spread malicious rumours and innuendoes about the PCs...or the Baron, for all that. And we're all forgetting that in theory the Baron himself, who is another major player in the scene, might have his own agenda. We don't know the Baron's opinion of the PCs going in, for example; or whether he's trying to pump the advisor's tires in order to make him a better match for his daughter - or his rival's daughter; or whether he thinks the advisor's in fact a bloody nuisance and will leap at anything that'll help get rid of him. Not ever? Or just not right away? There's a fairly big difference. Lan-"and we haven't even asked yet whether the advisor, though underhanded and scheming, is in fact the good guy trying to oust an even nastier Baron"-efan [/QUOTE]
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