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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7086039" data-attributes="member: 42582">But the event in the fiction doesn't cause that!What causes that is a whole lot of stuff in the real world: the GM describes a monster entering a room in which persons A, B and C are; certain other people at the table understanding that A, B and C are their player characters; there being rules of the game that establish how to decide what happens when player characters are charged by monsters, and those rules requiring the rolling of initiative; etc.If every event in the fiction correlated uniformly to a particular real-world event, the conflation mightn't matter. But that isn't true in anyone's game. For instance, not every charging of a monster through a door triggers the rolling of dice at some table (eg no one rolled dice because the gelationous cubes "charged" into the room where the advisor was trying to get the tapestry).There are no retries for Find/Remove Traps. Level allows a retry for opening locks. The rule about drinking a potion of Giant Strength is not found in the books, I believe, but is a reasonable rule.Upthread I've said a bit about what might count as a significant change in the context of the advisor episode. The passage of two weeks between sessions doesn't count!The advisor episode happened in 4e, which does have non-combat resolution with finality (namely, skill challenges).Even in AD&D, non-functionality is not the relevant criterion for finality, however: a subdued dragon, for instance - which clearly is still functional - "remains subdued for an indefinite period, but if the creature is not strongly held, well treated, given ample treasure, and allowed ample freedom, it will seek to kill its captor and/or escape" (MM p 30). UA (p 109) elaborates that a subdued creature "will not further attack the group that subdued it . . . [and] will submit, but seek the first chance to escape and, if the party that captured it is weaker than itself, turn on its captors. This subdual will last as long as the party has a clear upper hand."As long as the party has the upper hand, and - in the case of a dragon - is treating it well with treasure and freedom, the subdual will last indefinitely. The subdued monster is not "able to keep going, trying to mitigate the losses, try a different gambit, and so on".That's finality of resolution without requiring, in the fiction, non-functionality.</blockquote>

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