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Judgement calls vs "railroading"
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7086977" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>From the MHRP "Operations Manual" (ie the Basic Rulebook) (pp 12, 21, 97):</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">If a 1 comes up on any of the Watcher’s dice, [a player] can spend 1 P[lot] P[oint] to <strong>activate the opportunity</strong>. . . . You may use this . . . to create a resource during an Action Scene. . . .</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">A <strong>resource</strong> is a special kind of stunt linked to one of your Specialties and created by spending a PP during a Transition Scene, much as you would create a stunt die for a Specialty in an Action Scene. . . .</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Resources represent people you may know through your circle of contacts, information provided by your connections, or locations you can make use of as a result of your background in the Specialty. . . .</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">If you activate an opportunity with a PP, you can create a resource during an Action Scene that lasts until the end of the Scene you created it in. Otherwise, resources must already exist for you to add them into a die pool during an Action Scene. . . .</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">You may also spend a Plot Point during a Transition Scene to invoke some kind of <strong>beneficial contact or helpful association</strong> with a Watcher character [= NPC] - including dirty secrets about their past or some observation about their fighting style - by spending a Plot Point to create a resource die. . . . You can also introduce a resource during an Action Scene if you activate an opportunity from the Watcher . . . </p><p></p><p>The PC in question has the Social speciality which, in our fantasy hack, sits in the same general space as 4e Diplomacy and Insight, or MHRP Psych. (The Hacker's Guide, p 205, describes a similar Diplomacy specialty as "You have a gift for understanding sentient behavior and finding common ground with other people and cultures.")</p><p></p><p>The PCs were "negotiating" with the giant chieftain. The swordthane, having offered up his horse (an earlier-established resource, from the Riding speciality) as a gift, was trying to persuade the chieftain that the giants had the same interest in the PCs' quest as did the PCs and their people, because everyone had an interest in the land not being cursed/barren/blighted etc. The player asked whether there was a giant shaman or similar sort of figure who might back him up. I said that this would be the sort of thing one might establish as a Social resource if I rolled a 1 and the PP was then spent to activate the opportunity. When I rolled my next 1, the player duly spent his PP. Thereafter, his dice pools to persuade the chieftain included an extra d6 Shaman resource. (I did the actual talking for the shaman, expressing agreement with the argument the player (speaking as his PC) was putting to the chieftain.)</p><p></p><p>EDIT: In order to avoid being queried on my knowledge and application of these rules, I probably should also quote this, from OM p 54:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">A lot of things in the story don’t have dice associated with them because they’re a part of the fiction that everyone at the table just agrees on. Lampposts, sidewalks, plate windows, random passersby, bouquets of flowers, newspapers, and other items that aren’t immediately important are just context and color. You can make them important by using your effect dice to make them assets, or use them as part of your description for stunts . . .</p><p></p><p>The presence of a shaman in the hall of the giant chieftain is something that counts as "a part of the fiction that everyone at the table just agrees on". The player <em>made it important</em> by turning it into a resource, which is "a special kind of stunt".</p><p></p><p>PCs vs NPCs has nothing to do with it! "Let it Ride", no retries, finality, and similar principles aren't properties of the gameworld. They're rules for roleplaying, and so they operate upon the participants in the game, namely, the GM and the players.</p><p></p><p>Page 32 of BW Gold (which can be downloaded as <a href="http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/98542/Burning-Wheel-Gold-Hub-and-Spokes" target="_blank">a free preview from DriveThruRPG</a>) describes "Let it Ride" thus:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">A player shall test once against an obstacle and shall not roll again until conditions legitimately and drastically change. Neither GM nor player can call for a retest unless those conditions change. Successes from the initial roll count for all applicable situations in play.</p><p></p><p>What counts as a "legitimate and drastic change" is not a question that can be answered in the abstract. It's obviously a matter of judgement. And until the game <em>has actually been played</em>, it can't be known what has been put back into play by the players, or by the unfolding situation, and what has been settled.</p><p></p><p>The judgement will ultimately be the GM's, but it's not unilateral. I've been called on Let it Ride in BW play plenty of times - that's part and parcel of the system, and a player reminding me that something has been settled, and that nothing has drastically changed since then, is not doing anything remotely out of order.</p><p></p><p>(The same answer applies to [MENTION=29398]Lanefan[/MENTION]'s question "What about the passage of two weeks in game?" It depends utterly on what actually occurred in the play of the game with respect to the passage of those two weeks. In the abstract there's no saying whether the passage of two weeks is utterly trivial, or game-changingly fundamental.)</p><p></p><p>Haven't I already answered this? Years before the PCs and advisor had crossed paths, the advisor was building up a goblin army to try and recover the magical tapestry that would show him the way to Torog's Soul Abattoir. The advisor's motivation for doing this had nothing to do with the PCs. He was trying to help Vecna gain control of the Underdark souls.</p><p></p><p>For the advisor to raise a goblin army, or to weasel his way into the service of the baron, or to woo the baron's neice and convert her to evil Vecna worship, doesn't require any mechanical resolution at all. I just write this stuff into the backstory of the campaign!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7086977, member: 42582"] From the MHRP "Operations Manual" (ie the Basic Rulebook) (pp 12, 21, 97): [indent]If a 1 comes up on any of the Watcher’s dice, [a player] can spend 1 P[lot] P[oint] to [b]activate the opportunity[/b]. . . . You may use this . . . to create a resource during an Action Scene. . . . A [b]resource[/b] is a special kind of stunt linked to one of your Specialties and created by spending a PP during a Transition Scene, much as you would create a stunt die for a Specialty in an Action Scene. . . . Resources represent people you may know through your circle of contacts, information provided by your connections, or locations you can make use of as a result of your background in the Specialty. . . . If you activate an opportunity with a PP, you can create a resource during an Action Scene that lasts until the end of the Scene you created it in. Otherwise, resources must already exist for you to add them into a die pool during an Action Scene. . . . You may also spend a Plot Point during a Transition Scene to invoke some kind of [B]beneficial contact or helpful association[/B] with a Watcher character [= NPC] - including dirty secrets about their past or some observation about their fighting style - by spending a Plot Point to create a resource die. . . . You can also introduce a resource during an Action Scene if you activate an opportunity from the Watcher . . . [/indent] The PC in question has the Social speciality which, in our fantasy hack, sits in the same general space as 4e Diplomacy and Insight, or MHRP Psych. (The Hacker's Guide, p 205, describes a similar Diplomacy specialty as "You have a gift for understanding sentient behavior and finding common ground with other people and cultures.") The PCs were "negotiating" with the giant chieftain. The swordthane, having offered up his horse (an earlier-established resource, from the Riding speciality) as a gift, was trying to persuade the chieftain that the giants had the same interest in the PCs' quest as did the PCs and their people, because everyone had an interest in the land not being cursed/barren/blighted etc. The player asked whether there was a giant shaman or similar sort of figure who might back him up. I said that this would be the sort of thing one might establish as a Social resource if I rolled a 1 and the PP was then spent to activate the opportunity. When I rolled my next 1, the player duly spent his PP. Thereafter, his dice pools to persuade the chieftain included an extra d6 Shaman resource. (I did the actual talking for the shaman, expressing agreement with the argument the player (speaking as his PC) was putting to the chieftain.) EDIT: In order to avoid being queried on my knowledge and application of these rules, I probably should also quote this, from OM p 54: [indent]A lot of things in the story don’t have dice associated with them because they’re a part of the fiction that everyone at the table just agrees on. Lampposts, sidewalks, plate windows, random passersby, bouquets of flowers, newspapers, and other items that aren’t immediately important are just context and color. You can make them important by using your effect dice to make them assets, or use them as part of your description for stunts . . .[/indent] The presence of a shaman in the hall of the giant chieftain is something that counts as "a part of the fiction that everyone at the table just agrees on". The player [I]made it important[/I] by turning it into a resource, which is "a special kind of stunt". PCs vs NPCs has nothing to do with it! "Let it Ride", no retries, finality, and similar principles aren't properties of the gameworld. They're rules for roleplaying, and so they operate upon the participants in the game, namely, the GM and the players. Page 32 of BW Gold (which can be downloaded as [url=http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/98542/Burning-Wheel-Gold-Hub-and-Spokes]a free preview from DriveThruRPG[/url]) describes "Let it Ride" thus: [indent]A player shall test once against an obstacle and shall not roll again until conditions legitimately and drastically change. Neither GM nor player can call for a retest unless those conditions change. Successes from the initial roll count for all applicable situations in play.[/indent] What counts as a "legitimate and drastic change" is not a question that can be answered in the abstract. It's obviously a matter of judgement. And until the game [I]has actually been played[/I], it can't be known what has been put back into play by the players, or by the unfolding situation, and what has been settled. The judgement will ultimately be the GM's, but it's not unilateral. I've been called on Let it Ride in BW play plenty of times - that's part and parcel of the system, and a player reminding me that something has been settled, and that nothing has drastically changed since then, is not doing anything remotely out of order. (The same answer applies to [MENTION=29398]Lanefan[/MENTION]'s question "What about the passage of two weeks in game?" It depends utterly on what actually occurred in the play of the game with respect to the passage of those two weeks. In the abstract there's no saying whether the passage of two weeks is utterly trivial, or game-changingly fundamental.) Haven't I already answered this? Years before the PCs and advisor had crossed paths, the advisor was building up a goblin army to try and recover the magical tapestry that would show him the way to Torog's Soul Abattoir. The advisor's motivation for doing this had nothing to do with the PCs. He was trying to help Vecna gain control of the Underdark souls. For the advisor to raise a goblin army, or to weasel his way into the service of the baron, or to woo the baron's neice and convert her to evil Vecna worship, doesn't require any mechanical resolution at all. I just write this stuff into the backstory of the campaign! [/QUOTE]
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