Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Judgement calls vs "railroading"
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Campbell" data-source="post: 7087557" data-attributes="member: 16586"><p>It <strong>severely</strong> cuts against my interests.</p><p></p><p>It has <strong>severe</strong> impacts on skilled play of fictional positioning in order to meaningfully effect change in the game world. If I cannot trust finely honed and well developed skills at playing the fiction to have a significant impact on how things turn out than I cannot meaningfully play the game on a strategic level. If I cannot trust the GM to provide real information I can use to reward my efforts to interrogate the fiction than the entire enterprise becomes suspect. If I cannot rely upon the fiction I feel forced to rely upon the mechanisms of the game. When those mechanisms are also not reliable than I must resort to playing the GM. I don't want to play against the GM. It leads to a social environment at the table I emphatically do not care for.</p><p></p><p>I should note that I feel the same way about victory that comes out of nowhere as I do about defeat that comes out of nowhere. Nothing takes the winds out of my sails more than unearned success or winning because someone was taking it easy on me. I want my decisions and those of my fellow players to be the most significant factor in determining outcomes.</p><p></p><p>It <strong>severely</strong> undercuts my ability to effectively advocate for my character. While related to the above, this is slightly different. In order to play my character as hard as I want to I need to be able to reason about the situations they find themselves in an authentic way. That means reasoning about the fictional world, their place within it, relationships, their intuitions, their knowledge base, and innumerable other details I can not have direct access to.</p><p></p><p>It has a <strong>severe</strong> impact on the fantasy of being there in the moment and cuts across my understanding of the world we live in. Sure, we miss things all the time. Usually we should have seen things coming long before they actually reared their heads. There are also a wealth of resources out there for understanding the world in which we live. If something eludes us we can generally learn more about it. People are basically simple animals driven by basically desires, belief systems, and emotions. It's the complex relationships that make things interesting. </p><p></p><p>It results in <strong>severely</strong> unsatisfying fiction. Strong narratives hang together and feel meaningfully organic, not contrived. As an audience member when I am hit with a big reveal that was not effectively foreshadowed it feels like a narrative kidney punch. This is not a pleasant experience for me. I have thrown remotes, tossed books across the room, and walked out of movie theaters when writers pull these cheap tricks for shock value. The most effective reveals are things we should have seen coming. I can watch a movie like Fight Club that has a dramatic reveal again and again, enjoying it on new levels because it hangs together organically rather than relying on contrivance.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Campbell, post: 7087557, member: 16586"] It [B]severely[/B] cuts against my interests. It has [B]severe[/B] impacts on skilled play of fictional positioning in order to meaningfully effect change in the game world. If I cannot trust finely honed and well developed skills at playing the fiction to have a significant impact on how things turn out than I cannot meaningfully play the game on a strategic level. If I cannot trust the GM to provide real information I can use to reward my efforts to interrogate the fiction than the entire enterprise becomes suspect. If I cannot rely upon the fiction I feel forced to rely upon the mechanisms of the game. When those mechanisms are also not reliable than I must resort to playing the GM. I don't want to play against the GM. It leads to a social environment at the table I emphatically do not care for. I should note that I feel the same way about victory that comes out of nowhere as I do about defeat that comes out of nowhere. Nothing takes the winds out of my sails more than unearned success or winning because someone was taking it easy on me. I want my decisions and those of my fellow players to be the most significant factor in determining outcomes. It [B]severely[/B] undercuts my ability to effectively advocate for my character. While related to the above, this is slightly different. In order to play my character as hard as I want to I need to be able to reason about the situations they find themselves in an authentic way. That means reasoning about the fictional world, their place within it, relationships, their intuitions, their knowledge base, and innumerable other details I can not have direct access to. It has a [B]severe[/B] impact on the fantasy of being there in the moment and cuts across my understanding of the world we live in. Sure, we miss things all the time. Usually we should have seen things coming long before they actually reared their heads. There are also a wealth of resources out there for understanding the world in which we live. If something eludes us we can generally learn more about it. People are basically simple animals driven by basically desires, belief systems, and emotions. It's the complex relationships that make things interesting. It results in [B]severely[/B] unsatisfying fiction. Strong narratives hang together and feel meaningfully organic, not contrived. As an audience member when I am hit with a big reveal that was not effectively foreshadowed it feels like a narrative kidney punch. This is not a pleasant experience for me. I have thrown remotes, tossed books across the room, and walked out of movie theaters when writers pull these cheap tricks for shock value. The most effective reveals are things we should have seen coming. I can watch a movie like Fight Club that has a dramatic reveal again and again, enjoying it on new levels because it hangs together organically rather than relying on contrivance. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Judgement calls vs "railroading"
Top