Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Judgement calls vs "railroading"
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7088368" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I think there is some confusion over what I mean by "secret backstory".</p><p></p><p>If the GM has ideas for stuff that would be cool, or imagines things happening in other parts of the campaign world, but <em>they never matter to play</em>, then they are not part of the shared fiction. They are just things the GM is enjoying.</p><p></p><p>If the matter to play, this might be in two basic ways:</p><p></p><p>(1) The GM uses those cool ideas to inform the framing of a situation. That is backstory, but it's not secret: it's part of the framing.</p><p></p><p>(2) The GM uses those cool ideas as part of the fictional positioning according to which an action declaration is resolved, but does not make it an explicit part of the framing. That is what I mean by resolutin of action declaration by reference to GM's secret backstory.</p><p></p><p>Does (2) thwart player agency? Well, "player agency" isn't really a notion I've been using in the thread, and I'm not sure I want to start now. But (2) is clearly, I think, an instance of a GM-driven game. It is the GM's own conception of what is in the shared fiction that is determining the outcome.</p><p></p><p>Is (2) nefarious? I haven't said so. I don't like it, but not because I think it's nefarious. I don't like it as a player because I find it somewhat frustrating to have to puzzle out what the GM's conception of the fiction is. I like it less as a GM, because I find it both frustrating and tedious to referee players' attempts to puzlzle out what my conception of the fiction is.</p><p></p><p>Is (2) common? I think it's utterly ubiquitous.</p><p></p><p>Among those who don't object to (2) in general, are there particular instances of (2) that they would object to, while other instances of (2) that they would think are good uses of the technique? I'm sure that's so. But it's not my place to articulate their theory of their aesthetic preferences. I'll leave that to them.</p><p></p><p>The only drawback I've identified is that I don't really like it. Presumably that's not a drawback for those who do.</p><p></p><p>I've also noted some features of it: it means that the GM is not playing to find out, and it means that some of the players' efforts are focused on figuring out stuff that the GM already knows. But presumably those who like the approach don't regard those as drawbacks. Presumably those are things that make the approach appealing to them.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7088368, member: 42582"] I think there is some confusion over what I mean by "secret backstory". If the GM has ideas for stuff that would be cool, or imagines things happening in other parts of the campaign world, but [i]they never matter to play[/I], then they are not part of the shared fiction. They are just things the GM is enjoying. If the matter to play, this might be in two basic ways: (1) The GM uses those cool ideas to inform the framing of a situation. That is backstory, but it's not secret: it's part of the framing. (2) The GM uses those cool ideas as part of the fictional positioning according to which an action declaration is resolved, but does not make it an explicit part of the framing. That is what I mean by resolutin of action declaration by reference to GM's secret backstory. Does (2) thwart player agency? Well, "player agency" isn't really a notion I've been using in the thread, and I'm not sure I want to start now. But (2) is clearly, I think, an instance of a GM-driven game. It is the GM's own conception of what is in the shared fiction that is determining the outcome. Is (2) nefarious? I haven't said so. I don't like it, but not because I think it's nefarious. I don't like it as a player because I find it somewhat frustrating to have to puzzle out what the GM's conception of the fiction is. I like it less as a GM, because I find it both frustrating and tedious to referee players' attempts to puzlzle out what my conception of the fiction is. Is (2) common? I think it's utterly ubiquitous. Among those who don't object to (2) in general, are there particular instances of (2) that they would object to, while other instances of (2) that they would think are good uses of the technique? I'm sure that's so. But it's not my place to articulate their theory of their aesthetic preferences. I'll leave that to them. The only drawback I've identified is that I don't really like it. Presumably that's not a drawback for those who do. I've also noted some features of it: it means that the GM is not playing to find out, and it means that some of the players' efforts are focused on figuring out stuff that the GM already knows. But presumably those who like the approach don't regard those as drawbacks. Presumably those are things that make the approach appealing to them. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Judgement calls vs "railroading"
Top