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Judgement calls vs "railroading"
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<blockquote data-quote="Ilbranteloth" data-source="post: 7088477" data-attributes="member: 6778044"><p>And that's one of the places that loses me in terms of BW/DW, that an ambiguous result is somehow breaking the rules of the game. </p><p></p><p>Or to put it a different way, it's an example of a game/rule that puts the game/rules ahead of the fiction. Despite the fact that the game is supposed to put the fiction first.</p><p></p><p>So would all of these be acceptable within BW/DW?</p><p></p><p>1) The party asks for an audience with the king, and are rebuffed - because, they are told, the king has been assassinated.</p><p></p><p>2) The party asks for an audience with the king, and are rebuffed. Pressing, they are told that the reasons for being rebuffed are not your concern. If the king does not wish to see you, then he will not see you.</p><p></p><p>3) The party asks for an audience with the king, and are rebuffed - because, they are told, that the king is busy with important matters out of state, and the date of his return is not until next week. The reality is, the king has been assassinated, and the doppelgängers responsible for it, are still making proper preparations to secretly take control.</p><p></p><p>If not, why? But more importantly, if not, isn't that the game limiting the stories that can be told with that system. That certain story lines are prohibited?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I also think your description of the fiction is narrow, or at least not inclusive of other options that are more common in D&D. Such as the fiction is established by the actions and reactions of the characters. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the terms you're using. But to me the framing of the scene (does that include, "OK, you kick in the door, and the room is a square, roughly 30 feet per side, with some discarded furniture and moldy tapestries hanging on the other three walls). Is the boxed text in a published adventure "framing the fiction?" In D&D, the narration of consequences occurs after things like the declaration of actions, and the resolution of actions as well. In many cases this also includes quite a bit of discussion and exploration. These are not "framing" or "narration of consequences" so where to they fall in the fiction?</p><p></p><p>As to secret backstory, again I go back to Star Wars. Luke has a significant backstory. It is a secret from him, although parts of it are known to people (NPCs) that come into the story very early on. That backstory has a hugely significant impact on Luke's story from the very point that Vader says, "I am your father." As I pointed out, that changed the story from rebellion to redemption. </p><p></p><p>Would this story break the rules? Because I have no problem at all explaining how it could easily play out in D&D without bending or breaking any rules. It would run the risk of being a railroad, but it could be done in a way where the player with Luke as a character could remain control. The scenarios would be similar (caught by a tractor beam on the Death Star, so they'll have to escape, although the specific details could be anything), etc.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ilbranteloth, post: 7088477, member: 6778044"] And that's one of the places that loses me in terms of BW/DW, that an ambiguous result is somehow breaking the rules of the game. Or to put it a different way, it's an example of a game/rule that puts the game/rules ahead of the fiction. Despite the fact that the game is supposed to put the fiction first. So would all of these be acceptable within BW/DW? 1) The party asks for an audience with the king, and are rebuffed - because, they are told, the king has been assassinated. 2) The party asks for an audience with the king, and are rebuffed. Pressing, they are told that the reasons for being rebuffed are not your concern. If the king does not wish to see you, then he will not see you. 3) The party asks for an audience with the king, and are rebuffed - because, they are told, that the king is busy with important matters out of state, and the date of his return is not until next week. The reality is, the king has been assassinated, and the doppelgängers responsible for it, are still making proper preparations to secretly take control. If not, why? But more importantly, if not, isn't that the game limiting the stories that can be told with that system. That certain story lines are prohibited? I also think your description of the fiction is narrow, or at least not inclusive of other options that are more common in D&D. Such as the fiction is established by the actions and reactions of the characters. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the terms you're using. But to me the framing of the scene (does that include, "OK, you kick in the door, and the room is a square, roughly 30 feet per side, with some discarded furniture and moldy tapestries hanging on the other three walls). Is the boxed text in a published adventure "framing the fiction?" In D&D, the narration of consequences occurs after things like the declaration of actions, and the resolution of actions as well. In many cases this also includes quite a bit of discussion and exploration. These are not "framing" or "narration of consequences" so where to they fall in the fiction? As to secret backstory, again I go back to Star Wars. Luke has a significant backstory. It is a secret from him, although parts of it are known to people (NPCs) that come into the story very early on. That backstory has a hugely significant impact on Luke's story from the very point that Vader says, "I am your father." As I pointed out, that changed the story from rebellion to redemption. Would this story break the rules? Because I have no problem at all explaining how it could easily play out in D&D without bending or breaking any rules. It would run the risk of being a railroad, but it could be done in a way where the player with Luke as a character could remain control. The scenarios would be similar (caught by a tractor beam on the Death Star, so they'll have to escape, although the specific details could be anything), etc. [/QUOTE]
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