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Message: <blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 7090962" data-attributes="member: 6785785">@<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=16586" target="_blank">Campbell</a>I agree with a lot of your last post, for sure. I think the social angle is a big factor, and as we previously discussed, the expectations of all those involved.You mentioned something that kind of plays into something I mentioned in a reply to pemerton, so I quoted it below. I occasionally play a game called Microscope. It'd probabyl be considered about as indie as possible. It falls into the category of an RPG, and there is indeed roleplaying that goes on, but its play experience is so far removed from typical tabletop RPG play that I hesitate to use the term.It's more a collaborative world-building game. There are rules, but not mechanics, and there is no GM and no dice and no prep required to play. There are not PCs in the standard sense, though at times players will adopt the roles of characters in the game. Without going into too great of detail, play revolves around each player adding a fictional element to a world that they are creating. So they start with a basic premise, and then each player can add or bar an element. Play then goes into turns and each player adds to the world, building on what others have added or coming up with something totally new. Players are free to move forward or backward in the timeline on their turn, zooming in to a very micro level or remaining at the macro if they like. So sometimes play consists of establishing eras along the lines of "the industrial revolution" or they can zoom in to an event like "the conversation between the king and his son that changed everything". It's quite open, and allows for some really creative collaboration.My description is probably not doing it justice....but it is very fun. However, it's a purely collaborative storytelling experience....so I hesitate to classify it as a game in the sense that we commonly think of them. Your comments of games as games....the element of challenge, or opposition of some sort. To me, that is a valued part of any RPG. So perhaps it's my experience with Microscope....which I kind of view as player-driven at its absolute, which influences my opinion on games that lean that way. There is no competitive angle that I want in my games...or at least, that's my concern. From descriptions of your game and @<a href="http://www.enworld.org/forum/member.php?u=42582" target="_blank">pemerton</a>'s, it sounds like they're brimming with conflict. But if the collaborative angle overcomes the competitive angle, does that change things?</blockquote>

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