Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Judgement calls vs "railroading"
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7092581" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>This post is something of a sequel to the one just above.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p> [MENTION=6778044]Ilbranteloth[/MENTION], in the second of the quotes above, seems to have completely misconstrued the technique.</p><p></p><p>Why does the character want silk? Well, if the player won't tell the GM - as in, if the players are trying to establish fictional positioning ("I've got a bolt of silk!") that they see as giving them an advantage down the track that they don't want to betray to the GM - then we are already so far from playing in my preferred style that none of the stuff I've been talking about really has any bearing at all. This is something that I would associated with Gygaxian-style AD&D tuned to a high level of player/GM adversarialism.</p><p></p><p>But assuming that the GM understands, from the motivational/dramatic/thematic point of view, why silk matters, then that tells the GM how to handle the matter: say "yes"; frame a haggling check; open up the possibility of dealing with smugglers; etc.</p><p></p><p>The last time buying cloth came up in one of my games was when a PC was trying to delay an NPC's departure from the Keep on the Borderlands. Something - I think the efforts of the spirit-summoning PC - had led this NPC to slip over in the mud, ruining his fine robes. The elven princess offered to have new robes made for him - which would take time. Because there was something at stake in the availability of suitable cloth at a price she could afford, I called for a Resources check.</p><p></p><p>If the real issue was not the availability of cloth but the tailoring of it - eg suppose the PC was not trying to delay the NPC, but rather to trick him into wearing clothes sewn with some secret pattern of supernatural sigils - then it would have made sense to "say 'yes'" to the Resources check and instead focus on the Tailoring check.</p><p></p><p>The same thing applies to the owlbear. Given my preferences as a GM, why am I going to frame the PCs into a conflict with owlbears that doesn't serve any larger purpose, of speaking to the players' concerns/interests for their PCs? Maybe, in 4e at least, to establish some colour (4e really favours using combats to establish colour) - but even then I would want the colour to speak to those concerns/interests, even if it doesn't immediately put them under pressure.</p><p></p><p>If you read/watch fantasy stories - or at least the ones I know best, whcih are the Earthsea stories; Tolkien; REH's Conan; and then fantasy cinema like Excalibur, Star Wars, Hero, Crouching Tiger, Bride With White Hair, Ashes of Time, etc - there are not encounters just for the sake of it. Conflicts establish colour - including colour relevant to the protagonist - and/or allow something about the protagonist to be questioned and perhaps changed. (For some LotR paradigms consider the Mines of Moria, or the fight with Shelob.)</p><p></p><p>Self-evidently the real world doesn't work that way. It's not an authored fiction. But I'm not sure how that has any general relevance to RPGing. (I mean, if someone has a particular desire to have their RPGing resemble the real world, go for it; but that desire doesn't have any <em>general</em> significance.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7092581, member: 42582"] This post is something of a sequel to the one just above. [MENTION=6778044]Ilbranteloth[/MENTION], in the second of the quotes above, seems to have completely misconstrued the technique. Why does the character want silk? Well, if the player won't tell the GM - as in, if the players are trying to establish fictional positioning ("I've got a bolt of silk!") that they see as giving them an advantage down the track that they don't want to betray to the GM - then we are already so far from playing in my preferred style that none of the stuff I've been talking about really has any bearing at all. This is something that I would associated with Gygaxian-style AD&D tuned to a high level of player/GM adversarialism. But assuming that the GM understands, from the motivational/dramatic/thematic point of view, why silk matters, then that tells the GM how to handle the matter: say "yes"; frame a haggling check; open up the possibility of dealing with smugglers; etc. The last time buying cloth came up in one of my games was when a PC was trying to delay an NPC's departure from the Keep on the Borderlands. Something - I think the efforts of the spirit-summoning PC - had led this NPC to slip over in the mud, ruining his fine robes. The elven princess offered to have new robes made for him - which would take time. Because there was something at stake in the availability of suitable cloth at a price she could afford, I called for a Resources check. If the real issue was not the availability of cloth but the tailoring of it - eg suppose the PC was not trying to delay the NPC, but rather to trick him into wearing clothes sewn with some secret pattern of supernatural sigils - then it would have made sense to "say 'yes'" to the Resources check and instead focus on the Tailoring check. The same thing applies to the owlbear. Given my preferences as a GM, why am I going to frame the PCs into a conflict with owlbears that doesn't serve any larger purpose, of speaking to the players' concerns/interests for their PCs? Maybe, in 4e at least, to establish some colour (4e really favours using combats to establish colour) - but even then I would want the colour to speak to those concerns/interests, even if it doesn't immediately put them under pressure. If you read/watch fantasy stories - or at least the ones I know best, whcih are the Earthsea stories; Tolkien; REH's Conan; and then fantasy cinema like Excalibur, Star Wars, Hero, Crouching Tiger, Bride With White Hair, Ashes of Time, etc - there are not encounters just for the sake of it. Conflicts establish colour - including colour relevant to the protagonist - and/or allow something about the protagonist to be questioned and perhaps changed. (For some LotR paradigms consider the Mines of Moria, or the fight with Shelob.) Self-evidently the real world doesn't work that way. It's not an authored fiction. But I'm not sure how that has any general relevance to RPGing. (I mean, if someone has a particular desire to have their RPGing resemble the real world, go for it; but that desire doesn't have any [I]general[/I] significance.) [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Judgement calls vs "railroading"
Top