Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Judgement calls vs "railroading"
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7092582" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I'm not sure what assertion of mine you're referring to.</p><p></p><p>I said that, as a narration of a failed Circles check, "Jabal says leave town now, or there will be consequences" would break the rules of the game. In particular, it breaks the principles that (i) the GM should go where the action is, and (ii) that - as part of this - the GM should narrate failure in such a way that new choices are forced upon the players. The narration you suggested doesn't go where any action is. It doesn't force any new choice. It leaves the players stranded, in terms of knowing what is at stake for their PCs and how they might reasonably proceed. It's a classic case of "find the plot".</p><p></p><p>As opposed to "Jabal says leave town now - you're cursed", which poses a clear question to the player: what's more important to you, keeping the cursed angel feather or making up with Jabal?</p><p></p><p>But anyway, there is any number of ways a dead king can be established as fiction. One example is by narrating it as a consequence of failure. Eg, the PCs, hearing rumour of an assassination threat against the king, rush to the palace. They fail their Speed (or whatever) checks. The GM narrates "When you arrive, it's too late - the king has been assassinated").</p><p></p><p>Or another sort of failure: the PCs come to court, looking for favours. Some sort of social-type check is made. The check fails. The GM narrates "You approach is rebuffed. Your contact is out of town, and no one else is interested in talking to you." That presents the players with choices for their PCs: track down the contact, or infiltrate the court some other way. And it leaves open the possibility - depending on future checks, framing, etc - that the reasons for the contact being out of town, and/or for no one else being interested in talking to the PCs, is that the king has just been assassinated.</p><p></p><p>The more general point is that <em>the causal sequence of authorship</em> does not need to track <em>the ingame causal sequence of events</em>. It is possible to author an <em>effect</em> now, although the <em>cause</em> of that effect may not yet have been authored. Eg I can narrate, as (one part of) a consequence of failure, that there is no mace in the ruined tower, without - at that point - establishing the fiction of how the mace left the tower. That bit of fiction was established later, when I had the wastrel elf turn up wielding the mace.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7092582, member: 42582"] I'm not sure what assertion of mine you're referring to. I said that, as a narration of a failed Circles check, "Jabal says leave town now, or there will be consequences" would break the rules of the game. In particular, it breaks the principles that (i) the GM should go where the action is, and (ii) that - as part of this - the GM should narrate failure in such a way that new choices are forced upon the players. The narration you suggested doesn't go where any action is. It doesn't force any new choice. It leaves the players stranded, in terms of knowing what is at stake for their PCs and how they might reasonably proceed. It's a classic case of "find the plot". As opposed to "Jabal says leave town now - you're cursed", which poses a clear question to the player: what's more important to you, keeping the cursed angel feather or making up with Jabal? But anyway, there is any number of ways a dead king can be established as fiction. One example is by narrating it as a consequence of failure. Eg, the PCs, hearing rumour of an assassination threat against the king, rush to the palace. They fail their Speed (or whatever) checks. The GM narrates "When you arrive, it's too late - the king has been assassinated"). Or another sort of failure: the PCs come to court, looking for favours. Some sort of social-type check is made. The check fails. The GM narrates "You approach is rebuffed. Your contact is out of town, and no one else is interested in talking to you." That presents the players with choices for their PCs: track down the contact, or infiltrate the court some other way. And it leaves open the possibility - depending on future checks, framing, etc - that the reasons for the contact being out of town, and/or for no one else being interested in talking to the PCs, is that the king has just been assassinated. The more general point is that [I]the causal sequence of authorship[/I] does not need to track [I]the ingame causal sequence of events[/I]. It is possible to author an [I]effect[/I] now, although the [I]cause[/I] of that effect may not yet have been authored. Eg I can narrate, as (one part of) a consequence of failure, that there is no mace in the ruined tower, without - at that point - establishing the fiction of how the mace left the tower. That bit of fiction was established later, when I had the wastrel elf turn up wielding the mace. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Judgement calls vs "railroading"
Top