Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Judgement calls vs "railroading"
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 7098345" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>I'm talking about fiction that matters to resolution. This can happen in two main ways:</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">(1) It engages a particular mechanic: this is how PbtA "moves" work, and is a factor in some of the systems I GM (eg in BW, if the GM isn't saying "yes" to an action declaration then s/he has to connect this to an appropriate ability - from the long list that is part of the system - for resolution purposes).</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">(2) It shapes the resolution of some other action declaration: eg in 4e combat resolution <em>location</em> is an element of fictional positioning that (via the range/reach rules, the forced movement rules etc) matters to resolution.</p><p></p><p>The examples you gave don't fall under either (1) or (2) - eg describing the 5 hp damage as a wound, as depleted morale, as dropping the weapon and having to pick it up, as wrongfooting that doesn't actual amount to changing the "square" in which the character is located. They are just colour.</p><p></p><p>But this isn't <em>fictional positioning</em>: it doesn't matter to <em>resolution.</em></p><p></p><p>All you've got is that, at time 1, the player describes the 5 hp loss as a wound, and so - down the track at time 2 - the GM has to describe the NPC as wounded rather than (say) winded. But it's got no <em>teeth</em> at all. For instance, there's not any rule that connects the player's narration to a requirement to (say) mark off a bandage on an equipment list - let alone anything like a wound penalty, or a constraint on future action declarations.</p><p></p><p>Contrast (say) this from Dungeon World (pp 23, 28):</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">Damage is dealt based on the fiction. Moves that deal damage, like hack and slash, are just a special case of this: the move establishes that damage is being dealt in the fiction. Damage can be assigned even when no move is made, if it follows from the fiction.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">HP loss is often only part of the effect. If the harm is generalized, like falling into a pit, losing the HP is probably all there is to it. When the harm is specific, like an orc pulling your arm from its socket, HP should be part of the effect but not the entirety of it. The bigger issue is dealing with the newly busted arm: how do you swing a sword or cast a spell? Likewise having your head chopped off is not HP damage, it’s just you being dead. . . .</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Losing HP is a general thing, it’s getting tired, bruised, cut, and so on. Some wounds are deeper though. These are debilities. . . .</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Debilities don’t replace descriptions and using the established fiction. When someone loses an arm that doesn’t mean they’re Weak, it means they have one less arm.</p><p></p><p>This is not just colour: this is the fiction establishing the parameters for action declarations and resolution. The sort of "creativity" you described in relation to D&D, by way of contrast, doesn't establish this sort of fiction. It is just colour.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 7098345, member: 42582"] I'm talking about fiction that matters to resolution. This can happen in two main ways: [indent](1) It engages a particular mechanic: this is how PbtA "moves" work, and is a factor in some of the systems I GM (eg in BW, if the GM isn't saying "yes" to an action declaration then s/he has to connect this to an appropriate ability - from the long list that is part of the system - for resolution purposes). (2) It shapes the resolution of some other action declaration: eg in 4e combat resolution [I]location[/I] is an element of fictional positioning that (via the range/reach rules, the forced movement rules etc) matters to resolution.[/indent] The examples you gave don't fall under either (1) or (2) - eg describing the 5 hp damage as a wound, as depleted morale, as dropping the weapon and having to pick it up, as wrongfooting that doesn't actual amount to changing the "square" in which the character is located. They are just colour. But this isn't [I]fictional positioning[/I]: it doesn't matter to [I]resolution.[/I] All you've got is that, at time 1, the player describes the 5 hp loss as a wound, and so - down the track at time 2 - the GM has to describe the NPC as wounded rather than (say) winded. But it's got no [I]teeth[/I] at all. For instance, there's not any rule that connects the player's narration to a requirement to (say) mark off a bandage on an equipment list - let alone anything like a wound penalty, or a constraint on future action declarations. Contrast (say) this from Dungeon World (pp 23, 28): [indent]Damage is dealt based on the fiction. Moves that deal damage, like hack and slash, are just a special case of this: the move establishes that damage is being dealt in the fiction. Damage can be assigned even when no move is made, if it follows from the fiction. HP loss is often only part of the effect. If the harm is generalized, like falling into a pit, losing the HP is probably all there is to it. When the harm is specific, like an orc pulling your arm from its socket, HP should be part of the effect but not the entirety of it. The bigger issue is dealing with the newly busted arm: how do you swing a sword or cast a spell? Likewise having your head chopped off is not HP damage, it’s just you being dead. . . . Losing HP is a general thing, it’s getting tired, bruised, cut, and so on. Some wounds are deeper though. These are debilities. . . . Debilities don’t replace descriptions and using the established fiction. When someone loses an arm that doesn’t mean they’re Weak, it means they have one less arm.[/indent] This is not just colour: this is the fiction establishing the parameters for action declarations and resolution. The sort of "creativity" you described in relation to D&D, by way of contrast, doesn't establish this sort of fiction. It is just colour. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Judgement calls vs "railroading"
Top