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Message: <blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 7098443" data-attributes="member: 6785785">I am insisting on disregarding such a distinction. Not because the fiction writes itself. But the fiction can certainly exercise causal power over people in the real world. Of course it does....that's how the game works. The players take input from the fiction and then decide how their characters would act. Interaction between the players and the fiction happens all the time. I would say your view is more along the lines of the fiction writing itself because it ignores the GM's involvement. The GM introduces the NPC in question. The GM chooses to either commit to a motivation, or to leave it open. Now, I am not against keeping NPC motivations open. Leaving things vague enough so that I can take it in several directions. But I do think a change is taking place. If the NPC has no motivation when introduced....he's up to something, but it is unknown by everyone, including the GM, then that's fine. But it is what it is. I don't care that a motivation can be introduced later on and within the fictional world it can be justified. There is no motivation, then there is. That is a change. I disagree. Now, this disagreement is very likely largely due to the approaches in question...I favor the GM being heavily involved in the story of the game and driving the game, while you prefer the approach of all players and hte GM establishing the fiction as they play. Well, from a fictional standpoint, the Passwall spell as a solution to a problem is something that comes from within the character. It's a choice made by the player for his character to have that ability because it may help in certain situations. The secret door, from a fictional standpoint, is something outside that kind of shows up out of the blue just to help the characters out of a jam. So, from a fictional standpoint, I think one is a bit more satisfying than the other. Meaning that if I was reading a story, chances are I would prefer a character solving his own problem rather than some outside element solving it for him. Not always....such random occurrences can be interesting....but generally I would consider one favorable to the other. From a gaming standpoint, I'm not as sure of the distinction. This is because I am not familiar with this gaming style, so there could be restrictions or caveats of some sort that limit how such information comes into play. But for me, looking at it simply as part of our discussion, the PCs being trapped in some way, and one of them using Passwall seems to be a PC using an ability chosen by the player for exactly this type of situation. A player instead using a character skill of some sort to establish the presence of a secret door is likely some level of player skill....but it's using the elements of the fictional world in a way that is far less constrained, so to me it feels easier.</blockquote>

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