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Message: <blockquote data-quote="innerdude" data-source="post: 7102177" data-attributes="member: 85870">I think that's a very fair, concise definition. I was thinking through your example about "finding the thing in the tomb in the mountains," how the placement of the tomb isn't necessarily the relevant portion of actual play---it's the player's actions, their approach, how they're utilizing resources, etc. See, this I totally relate to . . . And in my mind, it isn't "illusionism" if the players have already agreed as a group that the tomb is central to their PC's needs/agenda. If they've already made that decision, then I ABSOLUTELY want to ensure that they make it to the tomb, at least so long as that objective remains part of what the PCs are pursuing. If something along the way derails the PCs' needs or desire to actually GO to the tomb, and I then FORCE THEM to go to the tomb anyway . . . that's when the railroading starts. The other thing is, in the sense of "scene framing," the real goal is to present relevant obstacles to the players/PCs that they will enjoy overcoming. I've discovered I have to be willing to re-frame scenes as the PCs' intent/objectives change. In some ways it's better to simply identify what the PCs' objectives are, and then identify a list of obstacles that could potentially be framed into scenes that will appropriately challenge those objectives/needs. And this list of obstacles need not be specific to a place or individual NPC(s). It's more about identifying generally, "What would stop the PCs from achieving their objective of X?" For example, suppose the PCs objective is to reveal the treachery of a councilor to a king. Potential obstacles might include: <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The councilor completely hiding his tracks by destroying any information related to his treachery and eliminating "those in the know" -- thus, the PCs' goal is find enough relevant clues/information/witnesses before the councilor succeeds in insulating himself. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Active intervention by a faction allied with the councilor--a faction that either openly supports, or at least isn't opposed to the councilor having his way. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Lack of trust on the king's part that the party is acting in good faith--due to reasons established explicitly in the PCs' backstories. </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The political/cultural climate around the king's court is openly hostile to the PCs due to certain, explicit factors that are relevant to the PCs' backstories and stated objective(s). </li> </ul>Once I've established the obstacles in general terms, I can then start framing in the actual relevant bits (locations, NPCs, potential encounters) based on the PCs' existing experiences and their declared action declarations, while maintaining appropriate consistency with prior events / established fiction. And as the PCs' needs/objectives evolve, you have to be willing to metaphorically "reshuffle the deck" and change the nature of the obstacle to the PCs' goals. And while there's a definite "fail forward" component to this kind of play as well, eventually the "future stakes" become the actual stakes, and the final outcome of success or failure is determined.This, exactly. And it largely goes back to intent --- "Am I as GM trying to actively serve my own intent, or am I serving the intent of the players'/PCs' goals?" Sometimes, you can do both at once. Sometimes, you go with the players' intent. I've just found that very, very rarely does a game feel "fun" to me when the GM solely serves their own intent. And interestingly, in many cases the GM may feel that they're not trying to "push an agenda," but are rather simply trying to "stop the players from becoming too powerful / getting their way"---without realizing that this is, in fact, still an agenda. My current GM seems to suffer from this. It's like he's afraid that if he lets us succeed "too much" in our PCs' intent, it will somehow lessen the experience.</blockquote>

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