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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ilbranteloth" data-source="post: 7102833" data-attributes="member: 6778044">Weren't you the one that didn't like Fisking? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Although I'm also not just being clever (OK, mostly), because isn't Fisking a means to an end? In which case it always matters. That doesn't mean it always has to be consistent, though. I opted not to Fisk in my either of my responses to you since you indicated you object to its use.And no, I was asking if the means matter. Because my point is, in those situations the means only matter if somebody objects to them. Otherwise which ever means you use is irrelevant, or in other words, doesn't matter. In which case they don't always matter. Such as Fisking.Regardless, I think that's an excellent foundation for your moral outlook and don't mean any disrespect. I just think that in a game, the means matter differently depending on the rules. For example, lying or deception is something that I think the majority of us would agree is not a good means to an end (although we might debate white lies, and certain situations), but few if any would say that bluffing in poker, or deception in other games that rely on it as wrong.I'm also a bit confused between this comment: "I don't hold that Illusionism is, in and of itself, something to be avoided."And your statement in post #1555: "All forms of Illusionism are not playing with integrity, no matter what system you play." They seem contradictory to me, although it might just be me. My assumption, of course, is that it's always desirable to play with integrity.Also, regarding point #4.So if I build a city, and provide two roads, one to the west and one to the east, and place the city on whichever road the players take - is it not Illusionism if the players desired intent is not subverted? If they have no idea what might lie either way, and don't have any particular goal in mind when taking the road they select, is it still Illusionism? Assuming, of course, that the mechanics of the game allow the DM to place the city where he sees fit. In other words, D&D doesn't restrict the DM's ability to place things to during the session only.I guess part of what I'm getting at is whether the context determines whether it is actually illusionism or not, or does it just determine whether a player might object to the illusionism or not?</blockquote>

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