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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ilbranteloth" data-source="post: 7103219" data-attributes="member: 6778044">Well, that's the only way I've seen the term Illusionism defined on various blogs and forums. Now that I go look at the Forge definition:"IllusionismA family of Techniques in which a GM, usually in the interests of story creation, story creation, exerts Force over player-character decisions, in which he or she has authority over resolution-outcomes, and in which the players do not necessarily recognize these features. See Illusionism: a new look and a new approach and Illusionism and GNS. Term coined by Paul Elliott."Here's a definition that was posted in a different forum thread on the Forge:"Quote from: wfreitagI offer the following definition:Illusionism: Any practice used by a gamemaster during play, without the consent of the players, that constrains the players' ability to control the player-characters' major decisions."That's a pretty broad definition.Of course, in the thread this is then torn apart, and the final post ends with:"One key point: no matter what, the term from now on must go back to Paul Elliot's original description - retroactive story-fitting, by the GM, based on non-story-creating actions by the players. That puts us in a Terminology discussion. Either Paul Elliot's description is the only meaning of Illusionism, and I must rename the front-loaded-story method; or the term Illusionism may apply to either of the two methods, and they become sub-sets. I have plenty to say about this, but I also think the authority regarding this issue is Paul Elliott."Huh? Retroactive story-fitting, by the GM, based on non-story-creating actions by the players? How does that relate to the term "Illusionism?" It doesn't seem to relate to the Forge Glossary definition at all. It certainly doesn't relate to any other blog post or forum thread I've seen. So my other post on Illusionism doesn't directly apply, perhaps. Do I create a new term? This is one of the inherent problems I see occur repeatedly on forums and such - there are trendy terms that are created and debated, but then they are spread across the internet and used in wildly different ways. Or in this case, the example becomes the definition to somebody, since it is repeated in multiple places, and folks like me take those forum posts, etc. at face value.Of course, now I've also perpetuated the problem. Although I don't recall the other references I've seen mention The Forge as the original source, so even if I stumbled across it, I wouldn't know that's the original source. Plus, when I look at the Forge Glossary (quoted above) I ask, "what techniques?" If it's a family of techniques, what are they? Pointing to forum threads where the participants don't agree (and send the discussion into multiple separate threads) doesn't define it.Another inherent problem is that just because somebody initially defined it, doesn't mean it was a definition that withstood critical deconstruction. Clearly they didn't have a universal agreement at the Forge on the definition, although I don't know their process from forum debate to final definition. Of course, as we know, the initial intent is often irrelevant in the face of the use of others. Regardless of what the intended definition was, it can be irrelevant if the common usage is different.So what are we talking about when we're discussing Illusionism? What do you mean specifically? Even if you point me to the Forge definition, which one?The bigger question is do the rest of the people in the thread agree that's what we're talking about?My definition is one that focuses is choice. There is an illusion that there is a choice, when there isn't. The Forge definition seems to be a bit broader, but related. That there is an illusion that their actions and choices matter, but they don't. It's not necessarily related to an individual choice, but the session, adventure, or campaign as a whole.So my definition may be one of the techniques, but not the whole. What are other techniques that apply?</blockquote>

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