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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ilbranteloth" data-source="post: 7106529" data-attributes="member: 6778044">So part of the problem I'm having here is a terminology one, and the second is that despite what the folks at the Forge think, it's not an all or nothing thing.First the terminology thing: The term in use in this discussion is "secret backstory." If we're basing that on the word secret, then what you're referring to is something the DM knows that the player doesn't. Fair enough.But to me, particularly from the player's point of view, there is no fundamental difference between "secret backstory" and "unknown backstory." Whether the DM knew about the villain being your father before the moment he announced it or not makes no difference whatsoever to the player nor the story.So when we're discussing "secret backstory" my definition is "unknown backstory."The risk with a "secret backstory" where the DM knows something the player doesn't is the same as with any pre-authored material, whether it's setting, backstory, whatever - the DM might be inclined to steer the campaign toward that prepared material. Steer hard enough and it becomes a railroad.I disagree, only because from what I can tell [MENTION=29398]Lanefan[/MENTION] runs a game similar to mine, which "includes ethical/moral problems embedded in it and doesn't use Force techniques to produce a specific outcome." I try to avoid what the Forge limits as force techniques as much as possible. We just don't use rules that direct a specific narrative approach. Although we do - skill checks still have success and failure and, at least for me, they also have degrees of success and failure. I don't have a system like AW that gives you 5 sentences to select to build your narration from, for example. I consider the circumstances, which does consider the current thrust of the story, but also looks at whether this particular action/resolution situation would significantly intersect with the characters underlying motivations. For example, sometimes killing an orc is a moral dilemma, sometimes it's just killing an orc.When my daughter snuck into an orc hold attempting to get some more information, they came to some holding cells with prisoners/slaves. The two orc guards had their back to her (and the other PC that was with her), and she has a flying dagger that she could use to attack with. There were other orcs nearby (they could hear them) and they couldn't risk being discovered. So the other PC suggested she try to kill them silently with the dagger to the back of the neck at the base of the skull. She agonized over the decision because the orc guards weren't an immediate threat. She was adamant about trying to free the prisoners, but they weren't sure how they were going to be able to do it (other than hoping that the prisoners would be able to help them escape once they were freed and they were making a run for it).She didn't have an issue with killing orcs, just that they were unarmed and not an immediate threat. Somebody even suggested that they just draw attention to themselves, in which case they would be a threat, but she didn't think that was right either, because they would only be a threat because they made them a threat. She didn't even mention that it might alert the other orcs at that point. It was all about the fact that at that moment in time, they didn't need to be killed.The moral dilemma presented itself without any need for me to add anything else. I knew there were guards for the prisoners, because I did have a map of the hold, but I didn't expect them to be able to sneak to their present location where the guards would have their backs to them. I really didn't expect them to initially attempt to sneak into the hold for surveillance. They have their morals and know what the norm is in the world itself. One of the main things I like about the game (and have mentioned before) are these sort of character-building moments. But it's one of the things, there are many, many others. By your definition above, I must be running a narrative campaign. I'm OK with that, although really it's more of a hybrid approach, trying to build on the strengths of several styles.</blockquote>

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