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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Egres" data-source="post: 1731317" data-attributes="member: 23200">Except for that living creatures can still make saving throws. Please,don't misinterpet me.I'm not saying that the Hypersmurf's observation is silly or useless.I'm only saying that IMHO isn't enough.Why?Look at the Improved Fortification feat in the ECS for example.It says that you become immune to the extra damage from critical hits (that we have clearly shown means "not subject to critical hits" in the new wording of the ECS in another thread), and then it adds that you become also immune to sneak attacks.Well,you know that not being subject to critical hits already grants you immunity to sneak attacks,and Keith Baker clearly replied me that this kind of useless things often appear.Don't you remember that the same Caelic admitted that he thinks that this is a grey area and he can't say what type of creature a soul is?Its argument about a soul being a creature doesn't show us how this strange type of creature can interact in the world.It can only say yes or no as a result of a spell....is it enough to gave it a type?And,BTW,your last sentence is what i was convinced i would never find in EnWorld boards...but it seems that i (and Methos too) was wrong. Well,perhaps i'm too stupid to understand it,but i think that a character class is related to character,and all creatures that take character classes are characters.Besides that,if i play a Juggernaut and i play a fighter-Juggernaut,am i not a character? Please,don't misinterpret my words.I wasn't try to ban you from this thread. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> I was only trying to search for more arguments.In fact,my replies here are also based on your replies in the WotC thread! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />  But the distinction is not so clear,IMHO.Note:sometimes the dead creature seems the "soul"(as we clearly stated in the WotC thread.And the body is only a corpse,an object.But note the Raise Dead spell:Raise DeadConjuration (Healing)Level: Clr 5Components: V, S, M, DFCasting Time: 1 minuteRange: TouchTarget: Dead creature touchedDuration: InstantaneousSaving Throw: None; see textSpell Resistance: Yes (harmless)What are we touching here?The body?But,wasn't the body only a lifeless object?Is the body the dead creature? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused    :confused:"  data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" />  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused    :confused:"  data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" />  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f615.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":confused:" title="Confused    :confused:"  data-smilie="5"data-shortname=":confused:" />  But the problems come when we speak of class features.Do we have to treat a dead creature as an object for class features?And what is this special kind of creature?Does it retain its class features?</blockquote>

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