Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 6846902" data-attributes="member: 12731">Not to bash the adventure module, but I'm finding that it consistently and severely underestimates the power of my party at least. (I said I wouldn't bash the module, and so let me be clear I'm not saying this is wrong in any way. I find it quite natural that the module's baseline is for the expected power levekl of those that need the most advice: new-ish players and not-very-experienced DMs. Also, I'm not relating details about my party to brag. In fact: if jaded old veterans with high analytical skills and 20 years each of experience using and abusing D&D rules can't "break" a published campaign, wouldn't that be the really strange thing?)When they reached Blingdenstone, the entire threat of the Pudding King and his court felt very underleveled. They were only level 4 when they started and when they were level 5 at the end, I didn't even run the combats, because they would have been a foregone conclusion with little challenge or excitement. My party wiped the floor with Mistress Ilvara and her team at level 6. The book cautions the DM not to use her enounter below level 8, and even then it includes several tips on making things easier.Even for a fairly experienced DM like me, it's hard not to flinch when a CR 23 threat isn't automatically and immediately considered a death trap for a party less than half its level. It sure takes some getting used to...But my point here is simply: you can't (only) use the DMG guidelines and tables as your starting point. You can't simply accept it at face value when the module "assumes" and "supposes" this or that. You say you're supposed to fight only a single demon lord, and only at half strength at that. And that would be true: yes, that is the assumption. But that doesn't mean it will go down that way in practice. I haven't looked in detail at all demon lords, but a casual glance immediately tells me that a bloke like Orcus has access to several tricks that Juiblex doesn't even come to close to. Having 500 hit points of undeath to use is a huga advantage when it comes to flexibility, and flexibility is what you need to not get kited or cheesed to death. My party can already dish out 100 points of damage when focusing their fire. Mistress Ilvara the Drow Priestess got to experience this firsthand.In any encounter where Juiblex is surrounded by level-appropriate lieutenants all my concerns vanish instantly. If his encounter could be padded out by something as humble (for him, anyway) as a pair of CR 12 critters, that alone would probably wreck all chances of success for the party: it would double the amount of enemy HP, and it would probably rougly double the amount of enemy actions too. Factors that would make the fight exceedingly bloody and insanely dangerous for this level 11 party. But all by himself, not in his lair, without a brain to use tactics or even to flee, yes I could easily see him going down in 3-4 rounds. In that time, he would barely be able to make a hundred points of damage himself, which isn't nearly enough to break the determination of a level 11 party. (It could very well be enough to down or even kill both one and two PCs, but that would surely be considered acceptable if you could add "demon lord slayer" to your resume, amirite?)</blockquote>

Verification