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<blockquote data-quote="dave2008" data-source="post: 6847245" data-attributes="member: 83242">I didn't mean fundamental as a drastic difference, more: &quot;the point a which we diverge,&quot; sense.&nbsp; I think I understand your position, and I share it for the most part.&nbsp; I just wasn't aware at the beginning that you were redesign Juiblex for your specific needs.&nbsp; That as the only confusion.I guess my concern is that right now I think my designs might be in the middle.&nbsp; The WotC designs are at the low end, mine are definitely stronger, but are they full on optimized part stronger?&nbsp; I'm not sure, but I don't think so.&nbsp; I haven't yet decided if I need or want to make an adjustment, but there is something in my blood that wants a CR 25 demon lord to be a serious threat (like 75%+ chance of TPK) to a lvl 20 party of 4 of optimized characters (without epic boons).&nbsp; I guess I would like to see what an optimized lvl 20 party of 4 could do and go from there.i think your well on your way to your goal (still think he needs to do more damage <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />&nbsp; Never thought we had opposite goals, just different, and that is to be expected.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="dave2008, post: 6847245, member: 83242"] I didn't mean fundamental as a drastic difference, more: "the point a which we diverge," sense. I think I understand your position, and I share it for the most part. I just wasn't aware at the beginning that you were redesign Juiblex for your specific needs. That as the only confusion. I guess my concern is that right now I think my designs might be in the middle. The WotC designs are at the low end, mine are definitely stronger, but are they full on optimized part stronger? I'm not sure, but I don't think so. I haven't yet decided if I need or want to make an adjustment, but there is something in my blood that wants a CR 25 demon lord to be a serious threat (like 75%+ chance of TPK) to a lvl 20 party of 4 of optimized characters (without epic boons). I guess I would like to see what an optimized lvl 20 party of 4 could do and go from there. i think your well on your way to your goal (still think he needs to do more damage ;) Never thought we had opposite goals, just different, and that is to be expected. [/QUOTE]

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