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<blockquote data-quote="jndiii" data-source="post: 2378947" data-attributes="member: 33516">I don't disagree with your logic, and it's appropriate for most circumstances, especially with regards to missing the jump DC.&nbsp; The problem is that being able to roll a 20 implies that, just due to a &quot;fluke of combat&quot;, you somehow manage to jump a distance 10 feet further than you normally would when taking 10.&nbsp;&nbsp; Granted, that would only be 5% of the time, but it should be 0%.Similarly for the suggestion of using 5d4 to narrow the curve misses two points -- 1) let's keep it simple, and 2) the chance to manage 10 extra feet should be 0%, not 1/1024.The reason I introduce using the Balance skill for handling landings is to keep the randomized part.&nbsp; The players shouldn't be 100% confident of safety if their jump movement just barely covers the distance.Heck, the first response I had to this from a player of mine was that they objected to my use of the Balance skill, since &quot;no one would ever take it.&quot;&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue&nbsp; &nbsp; :p"&nbsp; data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />&nbsp; I conceded that the Tumble skill would be similarly useful, so long as the ground wasn't treacherous, or they weren't trying to land on a narrow ledge.The other reason for regarding Jump as a movement rather than a skill is that insofar as magic items are concerned, it quickly becomes absurdly more expensive to jump a few extra feet than it does to fly for long periods of time.&nbsp; Under 3.5, a +30 ring of jumping would cost 90k gp.&nbsp; All flying magic items cost much less than that.&nbsp; By classifying jumping as a kind of movement, it becomes possible to price magic items commensurately.With regards to doing the same with the Swim skill, I find it unnecessary.&nbsp; Swim speed is already a movement.&nbsp; The purpose of the Swim skill is to allow someone who doesn't -have- a swim speed to maneuver in water with some degree of confidence.&nbsp; Creatures with a Swim speed generally don't need to roll swimming checks.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="jndiii, post: 2378947, member: 33516"] I don't disagree with your logic, and it's appropriate for most circumstances, especially with regards to missing the jump DC. The problem is that being able to roll a 20 implies that, just due to a "fluke of combat", you somehow manage to jump a distance 10 feet further than you normally would when taking 10. Granted, that would only be 5% of the time, but it should be 0%. Similarly for the suggestion of using 5d4 to narrow the curve misses two points -- 1) let's keep it simple, and 2) the chance to manage 10 extra feet should be 0%, not 1/1024. The reason I introduce using the Balance skill for handling landings is to keep the randomized part. The players shouldn't be 100% confident of safety if their jump movement just barely covers the distance. Heck, the first response I had to this from a player of mine was that they objected to my use of the Balance skill, since "no one would ever take it." :p I conceded that the Tumble skill would be similarly useful, so long as the ground wasn't treacherous, or they weren't trying to land on a narrow ledge. The other reason for regarding Jump as a movement rather than a skill is that insofar as magic items are concerned, it quickly becomes absurdly more expensive to jump a few extra feet than it does to fly for long periods of time. Under 3.5, a +30 ring of jumping would cost 90k gp. All flying magic items cost much less than that. By classifying jumping as a kind of movement, it becomes possible to price magic items commensurately. With regards to doing the same with the Swim skill, I find it unnecessary. Swim speed is already a movement. The purpose of the Swim skill is to allow someone who doesn't -have- a swim speed to maneuver in water with some degree of confidence. Creatures with a Swim speed generally don't need to roll swimming checks. [/QUOTE]

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