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Just a thought about prestige classes.
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<blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 6468498" data-attributes="member: 92511"><p>Then I would invite you (and these "others") to grow a thicker skin that such vocabulary is "insulting/offensive" to you. I apologize for you feeling insulted...but that is not really something I have control over. I will endeavor to speak more...kindly (?), but if a given term is the best term to convey a given meaning, then I'm going to use it...because I am trying to convey an idea/thought. Not to insult/offend people but not to make everyone warm and fuzzy, either. ENworld is about keeping things civil [and "grandma friendly"] and having adult discussion/debate/conversation [about playing pretend make-believe elves], but not, insofar as I have never been led to believe, about censorship of actual views/opinion. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, "both." You've just <em>said </em>it, how do you not <em>see</em> it? Because you want them to have it <em>now</em> [or an option "at any time"].</p><p></p><p>So, it follows, that they should not have to wait for when a feat is available...because they get it "now."</p><p></p><p>So then, when they get to feat-picking level, they should get the feat (or ability boost)...<em>and/while/along with</em> having a prestige class.</p><p></p><p>That is called, as I've said, "wanting to have your cake and eat it too." You want [your] players to have the opportunity for<em> both</em>/all/more. It is a hallmark of and supports player entitlement.</p><p></p><p>"I want/deserve/prefer (i.e. "am entitled to") <em>more</em> [powers, abilities, choices, doesn't matter what the "more" is] and you are wrong/bad/unfun to not 'say yes' I can have it." Do you not get that? I'm not entirely sure whose style should truly be more "insulted" here. Thankfully, my ancient steel dragonskin is not so easily scratched.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I am perfectly capable of respecting your right and choices to play in a certain "style" that is fun for your table and, simultaneously, not agree with it. But the quotation marks are more a result of my opinion on the whole concept of "play style", which has led to nothing but confusion and animosity throughout the industry. There is nothing "style" about it. It's a term game designers made up for individual choices and preferences,<em> any all</em> individual preferences. It [style] does not come with any innate or objective "truth/right" nor, I believe, should be used to define any particular player or game. All it serves it to create a false "us/them" dichotomy...and we continue to perpetuate it among ourselves.</p><p></p><p>So the quotes are because I DO have contempt for the term, in general, and its use as a blanket justification for individual preferences. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No. You said, and I just double checked to make sure, "I want to create a bladesinger feat that<em> bridges</em> full caster and martial skill..." That is, as I read it, "full caster skill" <em>and </em>"martial skill." There is nothing "blending" about this. But we can chalk this up to you not being a native english speaker and a lack of noticing some intended nuance of the English language, which I suppose was beyond me, on my part.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This only seems to support my view, above.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sure that last part is fine. Makes sense. The 10th level equivalent power, being the second or third part of the "prestige whatever it turns out to be." That works for me. The first part, making prestige classes usable "instead of base classes" I just don't like.</p><p></p><p>You've been very clear. I understand [I think] what you are saying/asking for. You want "Prestige Classes" in 5e to be<em> classes</em> (and/or akin to sub-classes), that can be multi-classed into/with, taken at any level, and<em> in addition to </em>other features/feats the PC is receiving as they level up.</p><p></p><p>I just completely disagree with that as <em>a</em> [my] preferred way to do it. I don't agree with it as a "good" way for the game/designers of D&D to go: for flavor, for mechanics, for a structure I feel the game should have and enforce.[which is, yes<em>, in part</em> to fight player entitlement]. I would not like it in my games. *shrugs* And, yeah, that's all there is to it. You are not going to convince me otherwise. I will obviously not convince you. No harm. No foul. </p><p></p><p>I am sorry people [particularly DM's] knowing their minds and making decisions about something, and then sticking to it [in regards to playing pretend at being make-believe elves], is such a bad thing for so many others.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="steeldragons, post: 6468498, member: 92511"] Then I would invite you (and these "others") to grow a thicker skin that such vocabulary is "insulting/offensive" to you. I apologize for you feeling insulted...but that is not really something I have control over. I will endeavor to speak more...kindly (?), but if a given term is the best term to convey a given meaning, then I'm going to use it...because I am trying to convey an idea/thought. Not to insult/offend people but not to make everyone warm and fuzzy, either. ENworld is about keeping things civil [and "grandma friendly"] and having adult discussion/debate/conversation [about playing pretend make-believe elves], but not, insofar as I have never been led to believe, about censorship of actual views/opinion. Yes, "both." You've just [I]said [/I]it, how do you not [I]see[/I] it? Because you want them to have it [I]now[/I] [or an option "at any time"]. So, it follows, that they should not have to wait for when a feat is available...because they get it "now." So then, when they get to feat-picking level, they should get the feat (or ability boost)...[I]and/while/along with[/I] having a prestige class. That is called, as I've said, "wanting to have your cake and eat it too." You want [your] players to have the opportunity for[I] both[/I]/all/more. It is a hallmark of and supports player entitlement. "I want/deserve/prefer (i.e. "am entitled to") [I]more[/I] [powers, abilities, choices, doesn't matter what the "more" is] and you are wrong/bad/unfun to not 'say yes' I can have it." Do you not get that? I'm not entirely sure whose style should truly be more "insulted" here. Thankfully, my ancient steel dragonskin is not so easily scratched. I am perfectly capable of respecting your right and choices to play in a certain "style" that is fun for your table and, simultaneously, not agree with it. But the quotation marks are more a result of my opinion on the whole concept of "play style", which has led to nothing but confusion and animosity throughout the industry. There is nothing "style" about it. It's a term game designers made up for individual choices and preferences,[I] any all[/I] individual preferences. It [style] does not come with any innate or objective "truth/right" nor, I believe, should be used to define any particular player or game. All it serves it to create a false "us/them" dichotomy...and we continue to perpetuate it among ourselves. So the quotes are because I DO have contempt for the term, in general, and its use as a blanket justification for individual preferences. No. You said, and I just double checked to make sure, "I want to create a bladesinger feat that[I] bridges[/I] full caster and martial skill..." That is, as I read it, "full caster skill" [I]and [/I]"martial skill." There is nothing "blending" about this. But we can chalk this up to you not being a native english speaker and a lack of noticing some intended nuance of the English language, which I suppose was beyond me, on my part. This only seems to support my view, above. Sure that last part is fine. Makes sense. The 10th level equivalent power, being the second or third part of the "prestige whatever it turns out to be." That works for me. The first part, making prestige classes usable "instead of base classes" I just don't like. You've been very clear. I understand [I think] what you are saying/asking for. You want "Prestige Classes" in 5e to be[I] classes[/I] (and/or akin to sub-classes), that can be multi-classed into/with, taken at any level, and[I] in addition to [/I]other features/feats the PC is receiving as they level up. I just completely disagree with that as [I]a[/I] [my] preferred way to do it. I don't agree with it as a "good" way for the game/designers of D&D to go: for flavor, for mechanics, for a structure I feel the game should have and enforce.[which is, yes[I], in part[/I] to fight player entitlement]. I would not like it in my games. *shrugs* And, yeah, that's all there is to it. You are not going to convince me otherwise. I will obviously not convince you. No harm. No foul. I am sorry people [particularly DM's] knowing their minds and making decisions about something, and then sticking to it [in regards to playing pretend at being make-believe elves], is such a bad thing for so many others. [/QUOTE]
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