Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="amethal" data-source="post: 8878286" data-attributes="member: 22784">I appreciate the point you are making, but I seem to be struggling to get mine across.Lots of RPGs of a certain type have a bit of a downer on half orcs. It's part of the tradition, I don't have to like it, and I can and will change it if I ever play C&C. I complain about it because this is the internet, and also because if there is ever a 2nd edition of C&C (as opposed to repeated printings of effectively the same ruleset) then I hope this is something they address.I complain about C&C, but not necessarily other RPGs, because C&C Players Handbook is a particularly strongly-worded example.For instance, compare:"Hatred: Dwarves receive a +1 bonus on attack rolls against humanoid creatures of the orc and goblinoid subtypes because of their special training against these hated foes." (Pathfinder 1e - note that "orc subtype" includes half-orcs; emphasis mine)with "ENMITY (GOBLINS/ORCS): Eternal wars against goblins and orcs have created an undying crucible of hatred for these vile creatures. When in combat against goblins or orcs, this fury and hatred allows dwarves a +1 bonus to hit these creatures. Dwarves have a similar distrust of half-orcs. Dwarves find inter-breeding with goblinoids to be the worst of all sins, and their powerful antipathy towards pure goblinoids negatively affects dwarven relations with half-orcs. Dwarves suffer a -4 to charisma checks when interacting with half-orcs, goblins and orcs." (C&C; emphasis mine)And while the half-orc entries may appear to be similar (and having actually read the Pathfinder entry for the first time in many years I was surprised by the wording; I hadn't realised the extent to which discrimination was included in the core rules), Pathfinder implies half-orcs are (often, but not always) treated unfairly whereas C&C makes it seem like half-orcs are to blame for the treatment they receive."Society: Unlike half-elves, where at least part of society's discrimination is born out of jealousy or attraction, half-orcs get the worst of both worlds: physically weaker than their orc kin, they also tend to be feared or attacked outright by humans who don't bother making the distinction between full orcs and halfbloods. Even on the best of terms, half-orcs in civilized societies are not exactly accepted, and tend to be valued only for their physical abilities. On the other hand, orc leaders have been known to deliberately spawn half-orcs, as the halfbreeds make up for their lack of physical strength with increased cunning and aggression, making them natural leaders and strategic advisors." (Pathfinder 1e)as opposed to"PERSONALITY: Half-orcs are unsavory and contentious individuals. As outcasts, they have few friends or allies, and often live miserable and lonely lives, wary of all. Even amongst themselves, there is little trust and great fear, as they jockey for positions of acceptance and status as mercenaries or in more nefarious professions. The social stigma that half-orcs encounter throughout their lives, when combined with the militant aggressiveness of orcs and the competitiveness of humans, produces a nearly fearless warrior and a relentless foe." (C&C)Curiously, the setting specific Players Guide to Aihrdre is a lot more nuanced."RELATIONS: Half-orcs are not commonly found in civilized lands, aside from those of Aenoch, where there is less stigma attached to the cross breed. In Aenoch they are more commonly accepted because of the long rule of Unklar and his common use of orcs. This coupled with that peoples reluctance to apply significance to the gods or their machinations, allows half orcs to travel without being molested. In other realms they are frowned upon. In Kayomor they are viewed as little more than orcs and often imprisoned, banished or worse. Maine is much the same as are many realms that suffered the depredations of those people. However, there are many half orcs who wander the free towns of the Hanse Cities, Gelderland, and other frontier regions. They are generally accepted in orc societies without question."Still, if the party needs to travel to Kayomor then anyone with a half-orc PC will have to roll up a new character.</blockquote>

Verification