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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MerricB" data-source="post: 6299359" data-attributes="member: 3586">This is possibly true. But, like many things in the combat chapter, there are contradictory rules by Gygax.AD&D uses to-hit charts rather than THAC0, and repeats the number 20 six times on the chart. According to the primary reading, you roll the die, add or subtract all modifiers, and then see if you've beaten the number on the attack matrix. Thus, a first level magic-user with a 6 strength (-1 to hit) can roll a 20 on the die... and only hit AC 2. The modified die roll is a 19, so it loses out on hitting all the repeated 20s. (A magic-user with a 9 strength would hit up to AC -4 with a natural 20).Meanwhile, a first level fighter with a 18/00 strength (+3 to hit) will hit AC -8 with a roll of a natural 20... but even a roll of 19 will hit AC -7!However, page 82 of the DMG gives an optional reading to those repeated 20s, giving the option of making all but the first of them achievable only with a natural 20. So, where a first level fighter has repeated 20s on the AC 0 to AC -5 lines, the 18/00 strength fighter will be able to hit AC 0 on a roll of natural 17 or better, but will require a natural 20 to hit AC -1 through -5. However, this doesn't change the poor wizard with a 6 Strength's numbers, and so natural 20 still only hits AC 2.These rules are based on what's on page 82, along with the notes on Using the Combat Tables on page 73.However, to muddy the waters even further, Gygax includes an 'Important Note Regarding "To Hit" Adjustments' on page 70, which states that spell modifiers "to hit" must be made to the Armour Class of the creature affected rather than the die roll, as otherwise it will cause some creatures to be 'hit proof'. 'By so doing it is still possible for opponents to roll natural 20s and thus score hits'.Right...The rule for automatically missing on a natural 1 exists for saving throws (page 79), but not (as far as I can see) for attack rolls. Indeed, you actually get negative numbers "to hit" at the highest points on the tables, not repeated "2", which you might expect if there's an automatic miss rule. Gygax indeed eventually developed a rule for what those negative numbers mean:* If a player rolls a (modified) negative to hit score and still hits the target, the damage is reduced by that (negative) score. (Example: A player rolls a modified score of -4 and hits an AC 8 creature with a long sword. The damage is 1d8-4 with a minimum of 1 point of damage).* If a monster has a negative to hit score, the attack is an automatic hit and the absolute value of the "to hit" number is added to its damage (Example: a 24 HD creature attacks a 10 AC wizard. This requires a -8 to hit, so the attack automatically hits and deals +8 damage).These rules are given in Isle of the Ape, and you'll note that the application of negative modifiers directly to the attack roll that are required for the first additional rule directly contradict the DMG page 70 rules, where those negative modifiers would instead affect the Armour Class...Cheers!</blockquote>

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