Just had a thought about xp

[the Jester]

I've heard a bunch of different xp systems proposed over time, including:

*standard xp

*xp for gp earned

*xp for gp spent on drinking and whoring

*xp for roleplaying categories

and others. But I just had a thought: what if, for different adventures, different things earned xp? So on a dungeon crawl whose goal was to exterminate goblins, you got xp for slaying monsters, but on an adventure whose goal was to drum up money, you got xp for gp? And for an adventure whose whole point was diplomacy and interaction, you got xp for roleplaying?

What do you think?

 

[Michael Silverbane]

I think that's a fine idea. Also, if you let your players know about what sort of things you'll be looking for them to do, they'll be less likely to get sidetracked on sundries, just because they think they need a little extra xp... They'll be doing what they want to do, without being tempted by the metagame concern of xp.

Later
silver

 

[jmucchiello]

How about 300*level xp per hour of play regardless of what takes place? Then actions taken aren't influenced by how xp are generated. (Delays of play would have to reduce "play time" to avoid the "Don't tell the DM but I'm going to make extra Monty Python references delaying play until 9:30 when we level" metagaming I suppose.)

 

[LostSoul]

I think that's a fine idea. Also, if you let your players know about what sort of things you'll be looking for them to do, they'll be less likely to get sidetracked on sundries, just because they think they need a little extra xp... They'll be doing what they want to do, without being tempted by the metagame concern of xp.

Hmm - if you told them what they were going to get XP for, wouldn't it be the case that doing it would be for metagame reasons? Not that it's a bad thing, though - I think it's a good thing, actually.

Another thing: you could have the players say what they get XP for.

One thing that's neat is that if you get XP for doing something, you get better or more deeply into that thing. Like killing monsters - you get XP for it, and you get better at killing monsters! Nice.

So if you got XP for manipulating local politics, let's say, and then your PC moved up the political ladder, you'd get the same kind of feedback loop.

 

[Li Shenron]

I think this is very good.

I actually prefer when the PC are rewarded for doing the right thing, rather than for literally "experiencing" situations, including failures.

They are both valid approach, the first more gamist, the second more realistic. But in all editions of D&D AFAIK only the second has really been enforced: you get XP from killing the wizard even if you did so because you thought he was the evil wizard and instead he was the good wizards; you get XP for running into a trap completely surprised and get all the damage. It makes sense, but it kind of defies the point of understanding what is the "winning choice" during the game. Of course it could be argued that if you make the bad choice, you get other penalties...

I'd definitely like to try and play in a game where the XP reward is modified by the purpose. For example, if you kill the 20 goblins which have kidnapped the princess, you get full XP; if you kill 20 wandering goblins that have nothing to do with the story, and this actually distracts you from your purposes, you get half XP.

I know some would hate it, but I'd like to try this for a change. You still get SOME XP anyway, but at least the game would sometimes result in something else than the most typical "kill everything you can for xp".

 

[shilsen]

But I just had a thought: what if, for different adventures, different things earned xp? So on a dungeon crawl whose goal was to exterminate goblins, you got xp for slaying monsters, but on an adventure whose goal was to drum up money, you got xp for gp? And for an adventure whose whole point was diplomacy and interaction, you got xp for roleplaying?

What do you think?

I don't care for it, simply because I've found the perfect XP system for my tastes. PCs get a fixed amount of XP per session to keep them advancing at a speed I'm comfortable with, irrespective of what actually goes on in the session. As jmucchiello noted above, that frees players up to do precisely what they think their characters would, without ever stopping to think how much XP that will net them. I frankly don't think I'll ever use another system, and next time I'll probably drop XP completely and just level them up as needed.

 

[Blue]

But I just had a thought: what if, for different adventures, different things earned xp? So on a dungeon crawl whose goal was to exterminate goblins, you got xp for slaying monsters, but on an adventure whose goal was to drum up money, you got xp for gp? And for an adventure whose whole point was diplomacy and interaction, you got xp for roleplaying?

This sounds like the story award variant from the DMG, where you give XP for advancing plot. (Or was that in the 3.0 DMG?) It did recommend that you halve combat XP if you were going to be giving out other types, so as not to advance too fast - it looks like you're taking that another step and only giving out "appropriate" XP.

However, since players may solve things in different ways, you need to be open to that. If it's to gain gold to build an orphanage, if the players manage to get people to donate skills (or magic) to build it, that should be just as good with no gold collected at all. In other words, when closing all XP except thew ones you think are appropriate, you need to be careful that you are not railroading them.

Cheers,
=Blue(23)

 

[the Jester]

However, since players may solve things in different ways, you need to be open to that. If it's to gain gold to build an orphanage, if the players manage to get people to donate skills (or magic) to build it, that should be just as good with no gold collected at all. In other words, when closing all XP except thew ones you think are appropriate, you need to be careful that you are not railroading them.

Point taken! I think the way I'd do it- if I were to try such a system out- would be to try to give them xp for, essentially, advancing towards the goal of the adventure; so instead of getting xp for gaining gold to build the orphanage, they'd get xp for taking steps to build the orphanage- for raising money, for acquiring the necessary resources, for hiring a talented architect (or designing it themselves!), etc- topped off with a 'completion award' once it was actually built.

I agree that using a free form system that is constantly self-modifying based on the nature of the adventure is a good way to end up railroading, though. You'd have to be verrry careful about that.

 

[Doug McCrae]

And for an adventure whose whole point was diplomacy and interaction, you got xp for roleplaying?

Would the half-orc barbarian with 6 int and 4 cha get xp for telling the Karrnathi ambassador to f--k off?

 

[LonePaladin]

I'm going to be altering the way XP is gained in my Eberron campaign this winter. Basically, everything will be goal-oriented; if the group needs to get a vital document from a nobleman's study, their largest reward will come when that piece of paper is in their hands. Any hazards or obstacles in the way will have XP awards as well, but the PCs will never earn XP directly for combat. (With one exception: if they find themselves in a fight they didn't start, they'll get a 'goal' reward, where the goal is surviving.)

This will encourage them to find ways around obstacles that aren't necessarily violent. If they need to circumvent a guardian, it doesn't matter if they fought it, charmed it, bluffed their way past, or whatever, they get the same reward because they got past it.

I'll also be giving out small rewards (probably no more than 20×ECL) frequently for good roleplaying, pulling off tricky moves, and things that generally make the whole game more entertaining. Giving a good speech, taking a chance on that Jump check that needs a 17 on the die, and pursuing storylines without prompting will all be worth extra XP.

I expect that everyone will have different totals within a couple sessions. That's fine by me. XP is one of the game's reward mechanics, and telling someone they just earned a small bonus helps them feel that they're doing the right thing. If someone falls behind, it's up to them to be more active in the game and make it fun for everyone in order to catch up.