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Message: <blockquote data-quote="TerraDave" data-source="post: 5593388" data-attributes="member: 22260">Since I haven’t done this in a while, I will rehash.There is also a DM: from a DMs point of view, two and a half of the three 08 books are outdated and have been replaced. Sure, the DMG has some evergreen material, just like past DMGs (I still use my 1E one and sometimes looks at the others) and you can update MMI numbers by hand or even on the fly. But I know many of you reading this and saying “compatible, compatible” are DMs, and using the MV (or compendium) and RC as your main references. Your three core books may have dust on them. You not even know where you last put them. You may wonder if they have any resale value, or hope they do. The play side is kinda a mess: Yes, we all use DDI/CB and play with mostly updated PHB material, with all sorts of other stuff in, including essentials stuff. Fine. We pay up to stay current. Or we did until the CB pissed us off. But I don’t think it is non-trivial to tell an experienced RPGer who wants to play 4E what to buy. What if they don’t want to subscribe to DDI, or find it overwhelming? What if they want to try the warlord or the fighter with lots o’ powers? Non-trivial. And HoS? Seriously? It had some great ideas, and some good mechanics here and there…but still…it should speak for itself. One reason the way it is is to work with the different kinds of 4E. Ok, one more, themes without attack powers. Total wasted opportunity. Essentials are not updates: I really don’t care. Go ahead, beat that drum. Ride that bandwagon. Updates accelerated massively leading into essentials. By design and the WotC’s own admissions, this was not a coincidence. Essentials material is, by its nature more updated. And what about the Weaponmaster? What is that exactly besides an update to make things more essentially? Falling sky: ya, ya, ya. Yes, I use recent 4E products and older 4E products and my hair has not suddenly caught on fire. But there are many legitimate issues that go beyond whether a slayer, a bard, and a "templar" can all work in the same party together.</blockquote>

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