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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MrMyth" data-source="post: 5600061" data-attributes="member: 61155">Yeah, I'm pretty sure that isn't what anyone was saying... at all.  It is perfectly fine to dislike Essentials. The objections most folks have are to portraying it as something it is not.  Honestly, of your complaints, I totally get 1-3 (even though I don't have the same issues myself). Issue 6... yeah, I think they were unclear in some areas, though I do think some folks love to take things out of context or read more into things that is actually there.  Issue number 4 is one of those things I'm less convinced about - yes, WotC renaming the original classes the way they did was an odd decision and badly executed. Saying that means they are trying to make it hard to "just not play with Essentials", though? That's what I'm going to really object to. Yeah, it makes it a little harder to use the CB, and I do find fault in WotC for that. But that's got nothing to do, honestly, with Essentials being forced on anyone.  If you have an issue with errata, that's fair. I like it myself, but not everyone will. But, again, the issue here is pretending it is something new. It's not.  Number 5 is where I really am starting to disagree. We're fooling ourselves if we don't think Essentials is a new edition? Come on! We've shown, repeatedly, how by those same standards, PHB2, PHB3, FRPG, Arcane Power, etc, all would count as new editions. No new edition has taken place. Pointing to the class compendium articles as proof only really undermines your point - they have almost nothing to do with Essentials. They are simply a handful of - generally minor - fixes and updates for the PHB classes. Again, you can object to errata itself if you dislike it. But, again, it isn't anything new - they've been making those same sorts of fixes since 4E started.  Again - feel free to dislike Essentials. Feel free to not use it. But insisting that it is being forced on you, or that it is a new edition... that I will disagree with. Not because I think you are stupid or hidebound or any other insulting reason - but because the vast majority of evidence convinces me otherwise.  Folks get so caught up in trying to compare this to 3.5 or call it a new edition that, I think, it actuall undermines their arguments significantly. Neither of those things are true. From my perspective, honestly, not even close to it. What 4E has done, with ongoing errata and updates, is something entirely new.  That doesn't mean it is immune to criticism. But folks should be criticizing it on its own merits, rather than just trying to latch on to some comparison that they think will stir up sentiment on their behalf. "Essentials is 4.5!" is a pithy soundbite, sure - but, like many such things, is effective only in its rhetoric rather than its accuracy.  And that's the sort of thing I've been objecting to.</blockquote>

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