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Just One More Thing: The Power of "No" in Design (aka, My Fun, Your Fun, and BadWrongFun)
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<blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 7888148" data-attributes="member: 7006"><p>For me... I've seen your point as the result of a way of thinking that many people appear to have. Which is that there is still very much a "D&D is a thing to WIN" mode of thinking.</p><p></p><p>I have seen in countless threads during 5E and 4E and 3E the stark belief of some players that they cannot NOT use something that is in the game-- they cannot <em>willing</em> nerf themselves, even if the thing they are using is something they dislike or even outright hate. If it's in the game, then they HAVE to use it, because they are not playing to their highest intelligence and skill if they aren't. And to not do so is an anathema to game playing. D&D is a game-- a game that has a "win state" (which is not to die and lose your character)-- and thus making choices that don't advance yourself towards that win state goes against everything that is holy about game playing.</p><p></p><p>As a result, the only way that person can be happy is if the <em>game itself</em> does not use or offer things that they don't like, thus entirely negating the need to self-nerf. If it's not in the game, then they never have to make the conscious decision NOT to use it. Their problem is solved for them.</p><p></p><p>And I think this is why people get so adamant about not having the game add things they don't want. They don't want to have to make the choice not to use it. Because to make that choice means to play <em>sub-optimally</em>, which they think says something poorly about themselves as game players. If you aren't playing to win then you are a bad player. And people just can't handle that thought.</p><p></p><p>I mean, it's the same exact thing when it comes to "re-balancing" the rules-- how many times have we seen complaints here of players who are sick and tired of seeing the exact same classes/subclasses/builds used in their games over and over and over again? They want all these other fluffy concepts in the game to be used because they aren't overdone-- but they don't ever get used because they supposedly just aren't "as good" as the ones that get repeatedly taken. So they demand that WotC do something about this-- that WotC "re-balance" the game-- so that the other options WILL get taken, and thus <em>they</em> no longer have to be bored with seeing the same small number of things re-used because their players have to "play to win". As though it's WotC's job to make the game work the way they want it to.</p><p></p><p>I mean to all those people I always end up reacting here on the boards the same way... which is posting about personal responsibility and how it's NOT WotC's job to fix things you don't like. They just give you tools, YOU have to decide whether or not to use them. And most people seem to rather complain then actually get their hands dirty.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DEFCON 1, post: 7888148, member: 7006"] For me... I've seen your point as the result of a way of thinking that many people appear to have. Which is that there is still very much a "D&D is a thing to WIN" mode of thinking. I have seen in countless threads during 5E and 4E and 3E the stark belief of some players that they cannot NOT use something that is in the game-- they cannot [I]willing[/I] nerf themselves, even if the thing they are using is something they dislike or even outright hate. If it's in the game, then they HAVE to use it, because they are not playing to their highest intelligence and skill if they aren't. And to not do so is an anathema to game playing. D&D is a game-- a game that has a "win state" (which is not to die and lose your character)-- and thus making choices that don't advance yourself towards that win state goes against everything that is holy about game playing. As a result, the only way that person can be happy is if the [I]game itself[/I] does not use or offer things that they don't like, thus entirely negating the need to self-nerf. If it's not in the game, then they never have to make the conscious decision NOT to use it. Their problem is solved for them. And I think this is why people get so adamant about not having the game add things they don't want. They don't want to have to make the choice not to use it. Because to make that choice means to play [I]sub-optimally[/I], which they think says something poorly about themselves as game players. If you aren't playing to win then you are a bad player. And people just can't handle that thought. I mean, it's the same exact thing when it comes to "re-balancing" the rules-- how many times have we seen complaints here of players who are sick and tired of seeing the exact same classes/subclasses/builds used in their games over and over and over again? They want all these other fluffy concepts in the game to be used because they aren't overdone-- but they don't ever get used because they supposedly just aren't "as good" as the ones that get repeatedly taken. So they demand that WotC do something about this-- that WotC "re-balance" the game-- so that the other options WILL get taken, and thus [I]they[/I] no longer have to be bored with seeing the same small number of things re-used because their players have to "play to win". As though it's WotC's job to make the game work the way they want it to. I mean to all those people I always end up reacting here on the boards the same way... which is posting about personal responsibility and how it's NOT WotC's job to fix things you don't like. They just give you tools, YOU have to decide whether or not to use them. And most people seem to rather complain then actually get their hands dirty. [/QUOTE]
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