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Just One More Thing: The Power of "No" in Design (aka, My Fun, Your Fun, and BadWrongFun)
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<blockquote data-quote="DEFCON 1" data-source="post: 7894083" data-attributes="member: 7006"><p>Yes, it does imply there are other swordsmen in the land, you are correct. And there probably are. But until one of them shows up in the game, we not only have no idea who, or how many... but we also do not know what their mechanical representation is.</p><p></p><p>Now in this hypothetical scenario where this player of mine made the offer of characterization for their level 1 Fighter that they are the greatest swordsman in the land... if I was to throw an opponent at them to allow them to show off this characterization... I'd probably go with one of the exceedingly low-CR NPCs, like the Guard. And as part of the story the PC would get to show off their skill. My guess would be that they'd be able to defeat this "swordfighter" opponent, thus expanding their resume and reputation. Now if they happened to lose... then that obviously is now true, and the player would need to change their representation in the story (or not, and thus maybe their character has evolved into a delusional or arrogant one). But assuming they won, and as this PC gained mechanical levels, other higher-powered NPCs would get introduced into the game to present challenges to the character. Like I might move on to use the 'Gladiator' NPC statblock at some point for a new challenger.</p><p></p><p>Now those of the "living world" concept of campaign design would probably ask "Where was this 'Gladiator' NPC back when the character was claiming to be the best swordsman back at level 1?" A perfectly reasonable question for those people who play that style, and a legitimate query that would seem to belie the PC's original claim. The answer of course being that until I needed that NPC to challenge the character in the story, he didn't exist.</p><p></p><p>The thing is... there is a very specific reason why I run my games in this way: I think Class game mechanics are just as nonsensical as Hit Points for narrative purposes. Quite frankly... any attempt to align what you get for leveling up with any sense of story and narrative presents results that I think are just incongruous and rather dumb. The game allows for characters to level up at whatever speeds the DM decides, which means depending on the types of adventures and the inclusion or lack of downtime... PCs can go from Level 1 to Level 15 over the course of like a single week or two in-game (if you are playing a megadungeon or something). A wizard PC starts at the entrance of the megadungeon pew-pewing a pair of Magic Missiles each day, but two weeks later in-game they are dropping Meteor Storms on people. It's completely ridiculous from a narrative perspective that they've somehow gained all this power over the course of two weeks. But the game allows for that to happen.</p><p></p><p>As a result, I just choose to handwave all of it. I pretend that the "power" a character has does not align to anything or necessarily "exist" within the fiction. The game mechanics of leveling and the powers/spells/features they get are given to players in this game because it <em>is</em> a game after all, and getting these new shinies every bunch of sessions is fun. But because they make no sense for whatever story we are trying to tell, I keep them separate from the story. The whole "If druids can grow huge plants every day, why is anyone in the kingdom going hungry?" conundrum. I handwave it all. They are game mechanics just to make the game run effectively as a game, nothing more, nothing less. The Cleric can raise people from the dead with a 3rd level spell because of "game", and not because this is something that actually happens in the narrative world the game is set in. Because from my perspective... to try and rationalize the combination of the two (mechanics and story) is a road towards madness.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DEFCON 1, post: 7894083, member: 7006"] Yes, it does imply there are other swordsmen in the land, you are correct. And there probably are. But until one of them shows up in the game, we not only have no idea who, or how many... but we also do not know what their mechanical representation is. Now in this hypothetical scenario where this player of mine made the offer of characterization for their level 1 Fighter that they are the greatest swordsman in the land... if I was to throw an opponent at them to allow them to show off this characterization... I'd probably go with one of the exceedingly low-CR NPCs, like the Guard. And as part of the story the PC would get to show off their skill. My guess would be that they'd be able to defeat this "swordfighter" opponent, thus expanding their resume and reputation. Now if they happened to lose... then that obviously is now true, and the player would need to change their representation in the story (or not, and thus maybe their character has evolved into a delusional or arrogant one). But assuming they won, and as this PC gained mechanical levels, other higher-powered NPCs would get introduced into the game to present challenges to the character. Like I might move on to use the 'Gladiator' NPC statblock at some point for a new challenger. Now those of the "living world" concept of campaign design would probably ask "Where was this 'Gladiator' NPC back when the character was claiming to be the best swordsman back at level 1?" A perfectly reasonable question for those people who play that style, and a legitimate query that would seem to belie the PC's original claim. The answer of course being that until I needed that NPC to challenge the character in the story, he didn't exist. The thing is... there is a very specific reason why I run my games in this way: I think Class game mechanics are just as nonsensical as Hit Points for narrative purposes. Quite frankly... any attempt to align what you get for leveling up with any sense of story and narrative presents results that I think are just incongruous and rather dumb. The game allows for characters to level up at whatever speeds the DM decides, which means depending on the types of adventures and the inclusion or lack of downtime... PCs can go from Level 1 to Level 15 over the course of like a single week or two in-game (if you are playing a megadungeon or something). A wizard PC starts at the entrance of the megadungeon pew-pewing a pair of Magic Missiles each day, but two weeks later in-game they are dropping Meteor Storms on people. It's completely ridiculous from a narrative perspective that they've somehow gained all this power over the course of two weeks. But the game allows for that to happen. As a result, I just choose to handwave all of it. I pretend that the "power" a character has does not align to anything or necessarily "exist" within the fiction. The game mechanics of leveling and the powers/spells/features they get are given to players in this game because it [I]is[/I] a game after all, and getting these new shinies every bunch of sessions is fun. But because they make no sense for whatever story we are trying to tell, I keep them separate from the story. The whole "If druids can grow huge plants every day, why is anyone in the kingdom going hungry?" conundrum. I handwave it all. They are game mechanics just to make the game run effectively as a game, nothing more, nothing less. The Cleric can raise people from the dead with a 3rd level spell because of "game", and not because this is something that actually happens in the narrative world the game is set in. Because from my perspective... to try and rationalize the combination of the two (mechanics and story) is a road towards madness. [/QUOTE]
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