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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JustinA" data-source="post: 3506646" data-attributes="member: 51618">John Wick did a great job of designing a L5R RPG with what I like to call an "evocative system": The very mechanics of the game, by being based on the Five Rings, evoked a philosophy very alien to Western thought (and very appropriate for L5R).Traditional RPGs, dating all the way back to D&D, have embraced Western dualism: There is the body (Strength, Dexterity, Constitution) and the spirit (Intelligence, Wisdom, Charisma) and the two are distinct and separate.But the philosophy of the Five Rings isn't a dualistic philosophy. So when Wick uses it as the basis for the ability scories in the L5R RPG, he very cleverly shifts players into thinking about the world in a way different from the way they normally would and very much in the way that their characters would.So, long story short, I agree with you: You lose a lot if you try to take an evocative system like L5R and adapt it to D20. (Now it may still make sense to do so: There are many groups which would prefer the ease of playing a game with D20 mechanics -- since they already know them -- to the benefits of an evocative system like L5R. But that's neither here nor there.)Deadlands is another game which had this problem: The card mechanics were evocative (in a different way, but still evocative). Losing those mechanics hurt the game. (Of course, the fact that the Deadlands D20 adapation was a POS turned out by a company that hated D20 had a lot to do with it. I remember having a discusion with a company rep about this over on RPGNet several years ago, and he was quite up front about the fact that they hated D20 going into the adaptation, never played the game, and were disappointed by the poor sales the adaptation had. It boggled my mind: You were actually surprised that your customers the piece of <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> you designed explicitly believing it to be a piece of <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />?)Ryan Dancey, tangentially, believes that PEG could have done a very successful Deadlands D20 that would have found a way to integrate the card-based mechanics into the D20 system. That would have been relatively difficult, but I would have loved to see an L5R D20 adaptation which replaced the traditional D&D ability scores with the L5R ability scores. You wouldn't need to do too much in the way of revamping the rest of the system, but you would have instantly maintained a lot of the original system's evocative nature.Okay, I think I'm done with my tangents now. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />My point is this: I really don't think that RIFTS is an evocative system. Oh, it's as unique as any other system in terms of how its mechanics interact with the game session. But ultimately, the Palladum house system is just an improved version of AD&D with a lot of new mechanics layered on top. And, ultimatey, D20 is also an improved version of AD&D. I don't think there's actually that much distance that needs to be bridged between the two.Justin Alexander<a href="http://www.thealexandrian.net" target="_blank">http://www.thealexandrian.net</a></blockquote>

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