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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Arkhandus" data-source="post: 3668707" data-attributes="member: 13966">Yep, Nifft.  That's basically it. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f641.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":(" title="Frown    :("  data-smilie="3"data-shortname=":(" /> Cameron: Yes, yes I have.  I have even had the distinct.....pleasure.....of having my PC beaten down within an inch of his life on multiple, frequent occasions by the party's Frenzied Berserker, and was just fortunate enough that the party wizard managed to succeed with his second or third attempt at Suggestion or Hold Person each time (by which point my monk was in deep negatives), to make the FB stop or run after 'supposed' enemies in the distance due to a Suggestion.  And I can assure you that the players in that campaign were pretty smart people, and played very tactically.  The wizard was great at using his transmutation specialty, the elf was an uber-archer, the halfling cleric was very lucky and tricky, and the druid was as much a melee beast as a blaster.  The FB was just pure munchkin though, and cared nothing for his impact on the rest of the party (or anything like teamwork).And you don't need to keep being rude, making callous insinuations, and beating on dead fallacious horses all the time.As for your wierd argument about people playing terrible characters, that's only a matter of a jerk DM and players with bad ability score rolls.  If I were playing the wizard there I'd have been the most suicidal wizard ever, and rolled up a new PC ASAP who didn't, for God only knows what reason, have an Intelligence of 8.I always allow players to re-roll when the CORE RULES state that they should, or when they rolled far too poorly compared to the rest of the party, to maintain some balance between the PCs.  And I don't shoehorn PCs into taking a particular class at 1st-level, they choose their class after rolling ability scores.  No one would willingly play a wizard who can't do anything but die like Joe Commoner.Also, your example is based on random ability score rolls it seems, not predetermined, pre-written rules material.  Those are not random, and classes, feats, etc. are chosen, not forced.  Unlike ability scores when you're playing with a stingy DM who wants to use the old ability score rules of placing scores in the order they were rolled.  And even then, you're choosing to play under such a stingy guy, rather than walking away from the table to find a more reasonable GM who's less likely to be planning to arbitrarily screw over your PCs at some point.</blockquote>

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