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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AllisterH" data-source="post: 3669116" data-attributes="member: 51325">By that argument, I can simply only use immune to stun creatures and just keep the manoeuver as is. That said, it isn't that easy to swap out manoeuvers. A warblade I've found can only really focus on two disciplines and thanks to the pre-requisites AND SDS being a high level manoeuver means you might not be able to grab an equivalent level manoeuver. Personally, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree since I honestly don't think the STUN effect is a game ender as you believe it to be. In-game experience I haven't found SDS to be unbalanced due to the DC of the check and other features. For example, Arkhandus mentioned how using just Skill Focus (Jump), Acrobatic and the Run feat, you can get a core-only high JUMP skill rank. In practice, nobody actually takes those feat since, other than SDS, from levels 1-13, there are much better options to take. Sure, they make the jump check "easier" and that helps with the earlier tiger claw juimp manoeuvers but given that there are equivalent level manoeuver that can do as much damage WITHOUT the jump check or more useful manoeuvers, the idea of taking subpar feats just to max out a 13th level ability seemed like a waste for us in our campaign.Side question: In practice, wouldn't the STUN effect be the equivalent of the surprise round?As an aside, I consider Polymorph/Shapechange much more problematic/broken than any other spell/feat/prestige class in the game. Polymorph is just too damn versatile and its effects are simply too powerful. Simply polymorphing even a simple dwarven fighter into say a troll plays havoc with EL I've found. Polymorph is just too much of a headache. Shapechange is worse given that you gain supernatural abilities. At 17th level, even a wizard only knows a few 6th level spells and higher due to cost of spells. Really, think about in game, how many 6th-9th level spells a sorceror or wizard would actually possess? Shapechange simply says "BAH" to that problem. Just find a creature with the right supernatural ability and voila, you get that 6th-9th level spell effect.I simply despise polymorph and I'm seriously considering banning it or at the least, using the new "one fixed form-polymorph spells" that the PHB II introduced. Much less prone to abuse at a glance it would look like.</blockquote>

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