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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celtavian" data-source="post: 4378627" data-attributes="member: 5834">I personally think the Pro-4E people exaggerate the power of the wizard to try to downplay what 4E did to the wizard. But that being said, I also think alot of people played with DMs that allowed 3.5E wizards to do too much. They allowed wizards to abuse every loophole they could find with spells like shapechange andgate. They incorporated every broken spell 3.5 put out like avasculate and solipsism. They played with wizards prior to the 3.5 fix to archmage. Things like that.It seemed that WotC would put supplements that would break the wizard such as new monster books that gave a particular monster they could change into that was overpowered or summon a new uber powerful creature that would wreck an encounter or fight better than the fighter. Or a new spell book with a few new key spells that were much better than anything else at equivalent level. Or a PrC that gave a much better advantage to the wizard class than any other wizard Prc such as archmage or the original elmental savant.The wizard in the 3.5 PHB was fine. The wizard after all the splat books was a danger to balance if the DM didn't keep abreast of what was going on and was willing to put the kibosh on overpowered spells and combinations as soon as he saw them. That would mean arguing with your players, something I know quite a few DMs don't like to do.</blockquote>