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Just played my first 4E game
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<blockquote data-quote="AllisterH" data-source="post: 4378659" data-attributes="member: 51325"><p>Ah, but you don't see "spamming" either in literary books or movies. Sure, the protoganist can do any move at any time but he doesn't. Either the opponent is dead or the move is unsuccessful and the hero doesn't use it again.</p><p> </p><p>For example, can you point out a scene or a character who uses say Tripping all the time round after round? Combat doesn't work like that in novels. Take the classic D&D nerd movie, the Princess Bride. It's much easier to ratinalize the fights on a per encounter/daily basis than it is to do the reverse.</p><p> </p><p>I think the difference is that in novels,movies the writer insures that the "situation" where the move is effective will only come up once in a while. Conversely, this is almost impossible for a DM to setup properly in a game, which makes it hard to balance.</p><p> </p><p>Whirlwind attack is a classic example of the problem. You can do it every time it comes up, but the expenditure of feats and the number of times that it shows up at the actual game table means that the feat tree is much less taken than the Power Attack line of feats.</p><p> </p><p>The above is one of the reasons why I do agree that the 4E is more gamist n that it actually considers what happens at the table than a theoretical model.</p><p> </p><p>It's one of the things I think makes 4E play better than it reads. A standard encounter is totally doable without the use of your big gun daily. You leave that for the climatic encounter (the level +4 battle) which admittedly makes it more cinematic.</p><p> </p><p>In a lot of ways, I do think 4E models cinematic action/anime heroes than previous editions but I also think earlier editions modelled combat in a decidely D&D manner that didn't harken to either novels or cinema so when the claim is that 4E is more videogamey I wonder more videogamey in what fashion since earlier editions didn't model novels at all.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AllisterH, post: 4378659, member: 51325"] Ah, but you don't see "spamming" either in literary books or movies. Sure, the protoganist can do any move at any time but he doesn't. Either the opponent is dead or the move is unsuccessful and the hero doesn't use it again. For example, can you point out a scene or a character who uses say Tripping all the time round after round? Combat doesn't work like that in novels. Take the classic D&D nerd movie, the Princess Bride. It's much easier to ratinalize the fights on a per encounter/daily basis than it is to do the reverse. I think the difference is that in novels,movies the writer insures that the "situation" where the move is effective will only come up once in a while. Conversely, this is almost impossible for a DM to setup properly in a game, which makes it hard to balance. Whirlwind attack is a classic example of the problem. You can do it every time it comes up, but the expenditure of feats and the number of times that it shows up at the actual game table means that the feat tree is much less taken than the Power Attack line of feats. The above is one of the reasons why I do agree that the 4E is more gamist n that it actually considers what happens at the table than a theoretical model. It's one of the things I think makes 4E play better than it reads. A standard encounter is totally doable without the use of your big gun daily. You leave that for the climatic encounter (the level +4 battle) which admittedly makes it more cinematic. In a lot of ways, I do think 4E models cinematic action/anime heroes than previous editions but I also think earlier editions modelled combat in a decidely D&D manner that didn't harken to either novels or cinema so when the claim is that 4E is more videogamey I wonder more videogamey in what fashion since earlier editions didn't model novels at all. [/QUOTE]
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