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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Mustrum_Ridcully" data-source="post: 4382691" data-attributes="member: 710">It tried to let me do more, but how? It gave me the option to suck at a combat mechanic, but at least try it (provoke AoO, if you fail, enemy returns favor,you deal no damage) or the option to be good at it (negate most disadvantages and grant some bonus). Stunts don't have to "nerf" powers. A power is a guarentee of the system that you can try the maneuver at least ones. A stunt requires you to come up with a creative idea on what to use, and requries you to use the surroundings.I think I prefer a "siloed" skill systems, too. At the moment, there is just one silo for skills in 4E, but expanding the system to cover more or less "background" features like Craft, Profession, Perform and Hobbies might require a different subsystem.I honestly never expected that I would like the idea of different subsystems. But then, before I used the Iron Heroes villain classes, I was convinced that the Monster as PC model of 3E was the best way to handle stuff, too.The Bard was the worse character because he had a mostly "passive" support - he sang his Inspire Courage, but couldn't really hope to compete in spellcasting with other spellcasters or in combat with fighters or Rogues. The Warlord has the same BAB and damage as the Fighter but his powers have different secondary effects - they buff his allies, while the Fighter screws his enemies. If the Bard had a better HD and AC, and a chance to compete with Rogues or Fighters damage-wise (say: He deals buffed with Inspire Courage the same average damage per round as a Fighter without Inspire Courage, all things equal) , he would be a lot better received. Or if he could just cast more spells with higher Saving Throw DCs. Well, following Fenes argumentation - 3E simply has those 6-8 years of development over 4E. The wealth of material can't be ignored if discussing which system you prefer _now_.In 1 year, or 2 years, or 8 years, a lot will have changed, and when 3E was a winner in its wealth of material, 4E might have exceeded it by then. The discussion where 3E stood one month after release and 4E stands is not uninteresting and might allow us speculations to the future, but if you have to decide _now_, that's not the point of view you take. Of course, no decision made has to be final, and it is not always possible to predict whether it is.</blockquote>

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