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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 6773466" data-attributes="member: 6696971">I've heard Florida compared to Queensland before so I'm fairly certain its apropos.  It is really a much more broad cornucopia of insanity though, not just redneck shenanigans.  Something for everybody I suppose!I think the "duelist" builds fulfill an interesting (robust tactically and in terms of being an asset) role within the framework of 4e's team-centric combat engine.  Effectively it is that of the "offtank".  While the primary Defender is locking down the majority of the enemies on the battlefield (or the most dangerous one), the "offtank" is able to manage one (or a couple) of enemies with their above average survivability, skirmish capacities, and modicum of control.  They are universally Strikers (or the Bladesinger - Striker in all but name - and Swarm Druid - capable of big melee control and surviability) so their high damage capabilities plus perhaps a little focus fire from their friends will eliminate "off-targets" quickly.  The 4e classes that can fill that niche are:AvengerBarbarianBladelock (with heavy armor and the right dailies/feats)BladesingerDruid (Swarm)MonkRanger (must have heavy armor or melee dex build + other resources devoted to survivability)Rogue (Duelist build)SlayerThe Kensai would fill that same role.  Little bit of an aside, but seeing as my last game featured all 3 of the above as my 3 PCs, I had to find ways for 4e to support the paradigm you're speaking of.  Broadly speaking, the best way it is handled is through:a)  A variety of Hindering Terrain on the battlefield that imposes one of the following conditions (Vuln 3/5/7 (save ends), - 2 defenses (save ends), - 2 to hit (save ends), give up CA (save ends).  These effects must be transparent to the players (as they would be to actors in the fiction) so their agency isn't inhibited (and thus the whole exercise rendered pointless).b)  The duelists having both skirmishing capabilities and the requisite forced movement capacity to leverage (a) above.c)  Robust stunting tools (which 4e has) for the PC builds that don't forced movement amongst their suite of resources.  Ath (str) builds for strongmen.  Acr (dex) builds for the nimble/speedy.  Bluff (Cha) for the swashbucklers.  End (Con) for toughmen.  Hist (Int) for the masters of technique/form.  Ins (Wis) for the masters of reading opponents.  Those all work as the skill catalysts for imposing forced movement stunts on enemies (and getting damage out of the rest of the damage expression budget) during duels.Beyond that, a good way to handle this is through fortune cards drawn at the end of each round (which dynamically change the situation such as move both participants so many squares on the battlefield) or hacking some mechanic whereby the person who has the upper hand has access to an Escalation/Momentum Die (that doesn't "death spiral" the whole thing).However, I do agree that duelist rules with less abstract resolution mechanics are typically superior for satisfactorily resolving the trope.  Or at least there needs to be rules whereby (a) dynamic, genre-coherent, duel-centered complications can occur and (b) the participants must be steeped in agency to affect the outcome of said duel (by inhabiting the OODA loop of their duelist to as large a degree as possible.  I've had several fantastic duels in DW, and those mechanics are quite different from RM and BW!This is an interesting point and I suspect that your ruminations are likely accurate.  4e's genre elements are broad and deep (thus supporting 3 full tiers of play).  Like Dark Sun, OA's band would seem a bit more narrow.EDIT - fixed some stuff that I mangled in my haste.</blockquote>

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