Katana and Bastard size, DMG X PHB: who is right?

[Ukyo the undead]

Why the Katana and the bastard sword are heavier than the long sword, do more damage than the long sword, are considered in the PHB a medium size weapon?

And IIRC these two exotic weapons are also longer than the longsword.

So, why a weapon that is heavier, longer and do more damage than a "large" weapon are considered a medium size weapon?

In the DMG the katana is a large size weapon. Who is right? The DMG or the PHB?

 

[avin]

I dunno, but there is no way a katana be heavier than a longsword.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

In the DMG the katana is a large size weapon. Who is right? The DMG or the PHB?

In this instance, the PH. Check the DMG errata. You will find that it corrects the DMG entry from Large to Medium for the katana. Also, it corrects the kusari-gama.

Bastard swords and katana's are medium weapons, but do more damage than most medium weapons. Thus they are exotic weapons which require a feat to use properly and fully with one hand. You can still use them one-handed without the feat, but you will have a -4 attack penalty. A truly Large weapon cannot be used one-handed by a medium-sized humanoid.

 

[Ukyo the undead]

Name price damage crit. Wght. Type

Longsword 15 gp 1d8 19-20/X2 4 lb. (S) bastard 35 gp 1d10 19-20/X2 10 lb. (S)
Katana 400 gp 1d10 19-20/?2 6 lb. (S)


I took it from a PDF that I think came from the SRD.

Edit: So the PHB is right. did the errata change the weight of these weapons?

 

[Dr. Zoom]

No, katana is still listed at 6 pounds. Why is this a problem? Longswords are medium martial weapons that weigh 4 pounds. The katana and bastard sword are exotic weapons that weigh 6 and 10 pounds, respectively. Seems alright to me.

 

[Ranger REG]

Why the Katana and the bastard sword are heavier than the long sword, do more damage than the long sword, are considered in the PHB a medium size weapon?

And IIRC these two exotic weapons are also longer than the longsword.

So, why a weapon that is heavier, longer and do more damage than a "large" weapon are considered a medium size weapon?

I guess it's better to classify them as Medium weapon since non-combatant classes can use them in one hand after taking an EWP feat for it.

Personally, it should be classified as Large for the purpose of nonproficient users on the Weapons table. Then in the weapon's entry, explain what a proficient user can do.

 

[Tsyr]

I dunno, but there is no way a katana be heavier than a longsword.

In a "real world" sense, actualy, it is.

I just got out a scale and several of my swords.

Some weights for you:

Longsword one: 2 and about 1/8 lbs
Longsword two: 2 and about 7/8 lbs
Katana one: 3 and about 3/4 lbs
Katana two: 4 and about 1/3 lbs
Katana three: 4 and about 7/8 lbs
Bastard sword one(and only) 6 and about 1/4 lbs

 

[Ukyo the undead]

Tsyr, can you tell how long are these weapons?

Im game terms, I allways thought that the bastard/katana were an exception to the large "weapon must be used with two hands" rule, since they had some differents qualities that requeired an special training to use.

something like a borderline between an medium size category and a large size one

 

[Spatzimaus]

The pre-errata form is that the Bastard Sword is a Large Martial weapon, and the EWP gives you the ability to use it as if it were Medium (but only if the user is also Medium; it doesn't let Ogres use it as a light weapon, or Halflings use it 2-handed).

The post-errata books say that the Bastard Sword is a Medium weapon that can't be used one-handed unless you take the EWP. That is, it's a Martial weapon with a limitation that a Feat removes.

Personally, I prefer it the original form, except with that part in parentheses removed. To me, Feats should give an ability, not remove a restriction, even when these end up doing the same thing. Also, the idea of a Human using a Fullblade (like a certain pointy-haired guy in Final Fantasy 7), or a Halfling with a Bastard Sword, has a certain appeal.
I mean, what's the big deal about a Halfling taking a Katana or something? Compared to a longsword, you spend a Feat to add one point of damage to your weapon attacks AND it's a different weapon type (invalidating any Weapon Focus/Specialization you had). That doesn't seem unbalanced to me.

 

[Endur]

keep in mind that the DMG/PHB stats have nothing to do with real-life stats for weapons.

A better way to look at these weapons is relative size.

A short sword is larger than a dagger.
A longsword is larger than a short sword.
A bastard sword is larger than a long sword.
A great sword is larger than a bastard sword.

The Katana is just a bastard sword in DnD terms (albeit a masterwork bastard sword).

Also, the Katana and Bastard Sword, being heavier than a long sword, supposedly require a feat and a 13 str to wield in one hand. The great sword always requires two hands. The long sword can always be wielded in one hand (assuming you are medium size).

Tom