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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ledded" data-source="post: 1511752" data-attributes="member: 12744">That is almost exactly the way I've seen it performed, with the initial backwards draw accompanied with more of an extended step in, almost (but not quite) lunge-like, then stepping back to slash downwards. It was performed incredibly quick, and seemed to be a very efficient way of responding to someone who was "in your face" per se <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />. Thanks for the detailed drawings... what book is that from, I could swear I've seen those before? Oh, sword geek I am, and proud of it. Before kids and my current gaming miniatures disorder, I spent a good bit of my spare change on whatever I could find that was remotely antique. My sensei at the time is a very good Japanese sword historian and collector (he actually owns a wakazashi that was finally traced back to one of the ones given to Commodore Perry) and he helped me find a very nice hand-made katana, smithed traditionally in the late 1930's. It's nothing special, but it's a real katana and it handles beautifully doing tameshigiri against the types of materials we cut. I have a late 1800's Epee that looks a lot like a modern epee but is very pointed (the blade being almost perfectly square with no edge whatsoever); there were strange inscriptions on the inside of the cup that a sword expert I knew finally identified as a popular way during the time period of marking the number of duels that had been fought with it in a sort of 'french shorthand'. One of my favorites is a 1796 English cavalry saber, the same one that the French tried to have outlawed as a 'cruel and inhumane weapon'. My bookshelf has over 25 books on various aspects of sword identification and history. But enough of my geeky ramblings on sword collecting. I have an issue of The Secret History of the Sword by Chris Amberger (the only guy I've ever met that has fought an actual illegal shlaeger duel, and has the scars to prove it) that has a very interesting article that draws parallels between German greatsword and japanese swordsmanship; many of the blocks, cuts, etc are executed in an eeirly similar fashion when you look at the diagrams/woodcuts from works from Talhoffer, et al. The guy you were talking about probably wrote that article. I may actually be in Vancouver again early next year (I love that town, BTW) and if I do, I'll drop you a line before I come. Well, good for you man, because you were dead-on right IMO. Dogbrain's stats are almost exactly what I've seen real sword historians and collectors (myself not included) come up with. I have actually met a fellow once who had a very nice collection, he had worked with an auction house and then later several museums. He graciously allowed us to handle a few of his weapons, and the early-period Rapier I held was noticeably heavier (and longer) than the knightly arming sword (equivalent to what most folks called a "longsword", though this one was longer than typical examples) that I also handled. I personally would not want to trust my life to a rapier unless I was much stronger than I am now, or practiced enough to know that I could end a fight fairly quick with one. EDIT:  There are examples and evidence of some rapier schools teaching cuts with a rapier, but these were most often draw-cuts meant to cause bleeding to the face, hands, etc to cause someone to lose grip, blind them, etc.  You dont cut firewood with one by any means. I've found that guys who are solely olympic style fencers and dont do much real research often have no sense of the reality of swords or swordfighting except mimicry of the movements; much like I often find housewives who get pumped about their bad-azz kickboxing technique after doing 15 hours of Tae-Bo <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />. (No offense to fencers in general, mind you) As far as fantasy vs. realism, I'll leave you with a humorous quote that someone laid down on me on the wizards boards after I was drawn into a raging rant about the 15-pound greatsword thing in d20, in pseudo-mocking defense of my 'reality' position when poked at by some guys I was irritating at the time: <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Well respected fencing maitres, but olympic fencing/smallsword experts nonetheless. And God bless William Hobbes, that man knew his stuff. One of the reasons the founder of Shinkendo, Toshishiro Obata, doesnt do much movie-work anymore is he grew tired of having to teach actors how to do incredibly stupid things with weapons without getting hurt, while making them look like they knew what they were doing. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> (He did work on Demolitons Man -Wesley Snipes's stick fighting-, Black Rain, and yes, the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, all three of which he had cameo parts in). Amen to that. Most of the hand-and-half-ers and associtated weapons termed 'bastard swords' that I've seen were not that much heavier than a one-hander, though I've heard that the extra length of the handle and often larger pommel seemed to counterweight the effect of the extra weight. I havent handled any historical examples though. I did get to handle a late-period German two-hander once, one of those big jobs that are unsharpened for the first foot or two. It was surpisingly light and thin-bladed for such a large weapon, not too terribly much more than a heavy, thick hand-and-a-half or long rapier, though the longer handle . It certainly wasnt 15 pounds by any stretch of the imagination. And the edge-on-edge blocking... eek. I once told a friend of mine who picked on me for getting irritated at that "hey, sure, why not have all the demoliton derby guys just do all the ramming with the *front* end of their cars? What? That would be stupid? Why? I saw it in a movie once!" <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> While edge on edge contact is sometimes unavoidable, it *is* undesireable for the most part, as it does greatly increase the likelyhood of you being the guy who suddenly came to the knife-fight with nothing but his pants. That is one of the good things about smallsword fencing... no edge to worry about <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> It always freaks people out who know nothing about swords when I tell them that many average one-handed sized swords ("longswords", katanas, etc) fall in the weight range of 2 to 3 pounds (give or take); I had a guy at my house once who I actually had to go get a scale to weigh my katana on, and then he told me it wasnt accurate because mine was modern and therefore not made like the ones "of the days of yore". Apparently they made the "old ones" out of meterorite iron smelted with stupidium.  Hell, some of the heavier 'contact' bokken made for exercise and doing kumite kata that I've picked up are as heavy or heavier than my darn katana. Thanks for the fun discussion, one and all. Most of the time I get into these on most gaming forums I just seem to annoy the non-sword geeks out there with my rants. Though it's ok for them to argue about guns down to the tenth of a millimeter and half-ounce of weight and date of manufacture down to the month and day... oh no, but it's ok that a rapier weighs half a pound and a greatsword weighs 15 and my shotgun weighs 12.7 pounds why cant I use it one-handed like The Rock mumble mumble mumble  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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