Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Keep On The Borderline
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="ParanoydStyle" data-source="post: 7586539" data-attributes="member: 6984451"><p>Okay, moderator came in and moderated but I was going to say...please do simmer down guys. (I'm kind of unused to not being the guy in the middle of the fight, but I think I like it.)</p><p></p><p>Without getting too deep into controversial topics, I just want to say that in general "they left it blank/unfinished so you can fill it in yourself" is very seldom a good defense of any gaming product. When I buy a game, I am buying rules, so if the game say doesn't have rules for social combat and I have the "opportunity" to make up my own, that's not a selling point. Magical tea party is free and everyone already has it. Likewise, I don't think the fact that not one NPC in either the Keep nor the Caves (nor as far as I know anywhere between) has a name or personality is a selling point for KotB. The point of modules is I think largely to save the DM work. The funny thing is, Keep <em>does this</em> for the HARD PART (the mapping, the dungeon stocking, the logistics) and doesn't do it for something easier and more basic (giving characters names and/or personalities, giving the PCs a motivation to be there/go to the caves). But I mean, what I also understand is that it's from a different era and comparing it to the standards of today is pretty absurd. I think Adventurers Will Adventure To Adventure For The Sake Of Adventuring was pretty much all the motivation you needed in 1979. But a lot has changed since then.</p><p></p><p>Yeah, I mean, I think it's safe to say I technically know Ron Edwards personally, and unrelatedly I wouldn't be in this business without the Forge, but on the other hand I think that *World is possibly the worst RPG ever made (to achieve popularity, anyway) and I generally find storygame zealots intolerable, so yes I have talked and thought this whole GNS thing to death from every possible angle at this point.</p><p></p><p>EDIT: Also, some of the encounters in this module are just friggin' bonkers on their own. Without some serious outside-the-box thinking, I don't know what a low-level, pre-Fireball party in ANY edition of this game ever printed is supposed to do about room #6 for instance, where they are confronted with <strong>40 KOBOLDS </strong>(that's not counting an additional 8 Kobold children who don't fight and just make things morally awkward after you massacre their parents: those 40 males and females explicitly fight to defend their patch). Like from AD&D to 3.5 to 5E that just does not seem like a remotely winnable fight, not to mention being a nightmare for the DM (because at this level, the exact tactical positioning of the kobolds does matter, so I hope you like keeping track of 40 NPCs to control, DM!).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ParanoydStyle, post: 7586539, member: 6984451"] Okay, moderator came in and moderated but I was going to say...please do simmer down guys. (I'm kind of unused to not being the guy in the middle of the fight, but I think I like it.) Without getting too deep into controversial topics, I just want to say that in general "they left it blank/unfinished so you can fill it in yourself" is very seldom a good defense of any gaming product. When I buy a game, I am buying rules, so if the game say doesn't have rules for social combat and I have the "opportunity" to make up my own, that's not a selling point. Magical tea party is free and everyone already has it. Likewise, I don't think the fact that not one NPC in either the Keep nor the Caves (nor as far as I know anywhere between) has a name or personality is a selling point for KotB. The point of modules is I think largely to save the DM work. The funny thing is, Keep [I]does this[/I] for the HARD PART (the mapping, the dungeon stocking, the logistics) and doesn't do it for something easier and more basic (giving characters names and/or personalities, giving the PCs a motivation to be there/go to the caves). But I mean, what I also understand is that it's from a different era and comparing it to the standards of today is pretty absurd. I think Adventurers Will Adventure To Adventure For The Sake Of Adventuring was pretty much all the motivation you needed in 1979. But a lot has changed since then. Yeah, I mean, I think it's safe to say I technically know Ron Edwards personally, and unrelatedly I wouldn't be in this business without the Forge, but on the other hand I think that *World is possibly the worst RPG ever made (to achieve popularity, anyway) and I generally find storygame zealots intolerable, so yes I have talked and thought this whole GNS thing to death from every possible angle at this point. EDIT: Also, some of the encounters in this module are just friggin' bonkers on their own. Without some serious outside-the-box thinking, I don't know what a low-level, pre-Fireball party in ANY edition of this game ever printed is supposed to do about room #6 for instance, where they are confronted with [B]40 KOBOLDS [/B](that's not counting an additional 8 Kobold children who don't fight and just make things morally awkward after you massacre their parents: those 40 males and females explicitly fight to defend their patch). Like from AD&D to 3.5 to 5E that just does not seem like a remotely winnable fight, not to mention being a nightmare for the DM (because at this level, the exact tactical positioning of the kobolds does matter, so I hope you like keeping track of 40 NPCs to control, DM!). [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Keep On The Borderline
Top