Keep on the Shadowfell - Irontooth

[Trellian]

I have a question about one of Irontooth's abilities (the goblin from the kobold lair).

Blood crazed - While blodied, Irontooth gains +1d10 damage and loses the ability to use goblin tactics. He must attack the nearest foe, charging when possible. At the end of his turn, he heals 5 hp.

Does this apply to every turn when bloodied? Sounds ridiculously dangerous too me.

 

[Regicide]

Every round that it's bloodied, that effect happens. It's an EL 6 encounter, as hard or harder than the final encounter of the adventure and one that your party will likely stumble upon as the 3rd fight. It's really really bad, just like the entire module. You'll either need to gimp it, play the monsters VERY stupidly, or take it out, otherwise the party will TPK. As kobolds get free shifts, they'll move faster than most characters meaning the party can't even choose to flee the encounter.

If you're not using this as an intro adventure and your party is already 3rd level then encounter is pretty doable and you may in fact want to have iron tooth actually wearing the dwarven chain instead of having it inexplicably locked up in the treasure chest.

 

[Trellian]

I am running this adventure with only 3 PCs, so I have already downsized the encounter based on my budget. Irontooth, however, was not cut. Maybe I could just remove the ability. It would certainly make it more doable.

Can I ask what you mean about bad module? Do you mean as in bad plot etc, or broken encounters? Or both?

I just picked it up because I want to try out the rules (I play 3,5 regularly), and this looked like the "obligatory introduction module".

Thanks for the warning btw.

 

[Doctor Proctor]

For a group of three, I would definitely lower the power level of that ability. Perhaps just add 1d4 damage and leave everything else the same?

For larger parties though, it's really not that bad. Well, provided you have a Defender that is.

When my party hit the Irontooth encounter we accidentally combined the outside and inside of the waterfall area into one encounter (we defeated everyone on the outside, but the DM said we entered the waterfall without taking a short rest, so we were low on HP, surges and encounter powers). That's the main danger for most parties, because they'll be dealing with a LOT more enemies and they'll have fewer encounter powers to deal with the ones inside.

We were able to beat the encounter thanks to some sound tactics though. The Strength Cleric and I got up in Irontooth's face and backed him up to a wall. I was able to hit him with Villain's Menace, which gives a +2 to hit and +4 to damage, and our Wizard was able to drop a Flaming Sphere right next to him. Because of his ability he was forced to keep attacking me over and over, which was okay since I'm a Guardian Fighter. It also meant he wasn't getting away from the Sphere. Eventually, we took him down with some focused fire and then cleaned up the rest of the cave.

Obviously, such complex tactics won't work with a small party. Provided that they at least have a Defender though, and hopefully either Guardian or BRV at that, you can "arrange" things so that when Irontooth gets bloodied he goes after said Defender...rather than say, charging the Cleric. That might mean fudging the numbers a bit so that he's actually "bloodied" a round after they reduced him to half, but I don't think that's throwing things in too much in their favor.

 

[Klaus]

When I ran this I had the kobolds unwilling to get too near Irontooth while he was bloodied, and when a kobold attacked a PC that was attacking Irontooth, I had Irontooth slay that kobold in a rage. "My fight! My fight!" and all that.

I ran it for 4 PCs, and I removed a few kobolds from both waterfall encounters. Alas, the PCs didn't rest between encounters, so it was one big fight.

 

[Oompa]

My players rocked irontooth..

They had him slowed and i missed his saves..

So before Irontooth reached the party he was half way xp and most of the other kobolds had been killed

 

[Lamentation]

My party had little problem with either before or after the waterfall. It was scary for 'em, but if you don't scare your Players now and then.... well, I think it's fun.

 

[hvg3akaek]

my party was almost a TPK. There were 6 players, and they had just dismal luck, the figher went most of the encounter without hitting anything, the barbarian only marginally better. in the end, i made the goblin a minion, a cousin of Irontooth's, who was standing in in Irontooth's absense. When he went down, the remaining kobolds scattered (still six of them).

Two PCs died, and three of the others only just made it through. But now they have a vengence they need to carry out, once they catch up with Irontooth!

 

[Trellian]

I actually ran a test combat yesterday using the pregens in the back of the book. Both the Wizard and the Dwarf was knocked unconsicious, but they made it. Irontooth... well, he was actually down i 3 rounds or something. Of course, it does help that both the rogue and the dragonborn rolled a 20 on their Daily Powers.. and another 20 on an at-will attack.

I am really beginning to appreciate the tactical aspects of 4th edition, wise tactics can really make or break a battle. However, I'm concerned that playing this adventure with 3 characters, even though I reduce the budget, will be hard because some roles will not be filled.

 

[Klaus]

I actually ran a test combat yesterday using the pregens in the back of the book. Both the Wizard and the Dwarf was knocked unconsicious, but they made it. Irontooth... well, he was actually down i 3 rounds or something. Of course, it does help that both the rogue and the dragonborn rolled a 20 on their Daily Powers.. and another 20 on an at-will attack.

I am really beginning to appreciate the tactical aspects of 4th edition, wise tactics can really make or break a battle. However, I'm concerned that playing this adventure with 3 characters, even though I reduce the budget, will be hard because some roles will not be filled.

Look at what roles are missing and follow the DMG advice on that. For instance: no controllers (which is the case of my party)? Go easy on the minions.