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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AngryPurpleCyclops" data-source="post: 4714684" data-attributes="member: 82732">I don't think you can say impossible.  A fey warlock and a wizard with sphere can remove half the combatants before they move.  Just the fey warlock with a little luck can pop off 4-6 minions by himself before they can act.  Obviously initiative or surprise are huge here.  Sphere as usual at level 1 is an encounter defining power.  We play on a piece of software called fantasy grounds that automatically rolls monster initiatives as they're added to the combat it then tracks who is active in the combat tracker so a fey warlock can place his curse on the lowest init minion in a clum of 3 and they all die on their init with no action.  The third triggers his curse and he teleports into the other clump assuming at least 1-2 of them has a worse init (you would pick the other clump if they had higher init values)so the warlock can easily pound 4-6 minions with no counter attacks and he still has his 12 temp hit points.  The sphere gets 1-2 minions and 2d6+4 attack on the skirmisher, plus another d4+4 on the skirmishers turn.  The whole first room can be killed or bloodied by 2 of the pc's.  It's very easy to see how this encounter is not that challenging no matter what the DM does if the party has both sphere and armor in it's arsenal.  Without the minions (and they have no chance) the skirmishers will likely be all dead by round 3 between the warlock and a rogue unloading with striker powers, a fighter pinning them down a zap cleric adding a little damage here and there and the sphere plowing trough bad guys.  The fighter does block up a choke point, all 10 minions are likely dead by round 2, and the party can make short work of the skirmishers while the dragon shields, worm priest and Iron tooth get ready for battle.  Iron tooth and a worm priest are pretty formidable foes but a cleric can offset most of the damage these creatures can do and the "automatic damage" of armor of agthys and sphere is just too much for creatures with 30hp's.  One landed encounter power and an at will or two coupled with striker bonuses like curse and sneak all piled on top of the automatic damage provided by sphere and armor make these creatures susceptible to being killed in a single round. This all said this is a mighty tough encounter for players who aren't tactical or don't have sphere.  twin strike is not going to down two minions per round most of the time.  It's about a 55% chance to hit so you'll only be getting two hits about 28% of the time.  There's a lot of room between played intelligently and DM meta-game knowledge.  The sound of clanging swords, screaming wounded, and magical discharges of energy pretty much mean everyone knows right away.   this is fair.  2nd level makes a big difference.  A cleric with shield of faith can change a lot of hits into misses.  No denying sphere is the cream of 1st level dailies. not sure what this means.  If you're outside the waterfall you're going to be firing blind at monsters inside.  You're also giving the kobolds time to form one cohesive force and not face this as 2 waves. have to agree, there's no hiding the fact you're attacking from the other kobolds.  I do think the encounter was designed to give the party a few rounds to take out the minions so even with a warning i would delay the second wave for 2-3 rounds as suggested (call it putting on armor and collecting weapons etc.) This isn't gimping them it's playing them as designed. if a fighter gets at the edge of the wall, then kobolds who don't know he's there might try and run around the wall to get in combat and thus suffer OA's.  The dragon shields and wyrm priest are "getting ready" or letting their minions handle the light work etc.  That is part of the encounter that maybe they're hoping to not have to fight directly or what ever flavor reason you want to give to them.   sort of the nature of DnD that every encounter in a dungeon doesn't spill into the others based upon noise.  The wyrm priest and dragon shield should not be attacking until round 3 regardless or you're changing the encounter.  Call it sleeping, call it eating, call it what you will but for 18 seconds the second wave is not ready, this is not gimping, this is encounter as designed.   definitely a possibility, it's an N+5 encounter.I sort of agree.  N+1 or less is just a joke to even a reasonably skilled party.  The game is a lot more interesting, challenging, exciting if almost every encounter falls in the N+2 to N+4 range. are you suggesting it drowns out the sounds, noises and visual clues of a battle inside the cave? because it's a game.  there needs to be a little suspension of disbelief.Two words.  Automatic damage.  If the party has some, this encounter gets a lot easier.  no automatic damage and it's a very very hard encounter.  A dragon born and a wizard can blast a lot of minions on round one even without the autokills but that auto dmg also piles up on worm priests and dragon shields.  even without the 2d6+4(or +5 with astral fire) the constant d4+4(or 5) will add up to 70-100 damage in the course of the battle and remove many minions.  Beacon of hope is another very strong power for pc's to win this encounter.  It is a bad encounter but it also is beatable.  iron tooth is not going to crush the party singlehandedly so it's about reducing his allies as fast as possible.  ray of frost can prevent that last kobold from fleeing.  sphere is pretty much the consistent answer to this encounter.   there's a lot of danger in iron tooth but a little party healing can make it less scary. or let a couple pc's die...  They can walk around the wall right into the fighters OA as well.  have to agree, TPK's suck but it's not the end of the world.  You're hardly vested in a level one pc and playing might actually make you want a different class or build.</blockquote>

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