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Keep on the Shadowfell Review
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<blockquote data-quote="jaycrockett" data-source="post: 4247817" data-attributes="member: 29468"><p>Mixed reviews here. I ran my regular group through 3 encounters. I have 5 players so no problems there. This group has been playing 3e for 6 years together, so there were definitely a bunch of 'but this doesn't make sense' comments, mainly around hit points, healing surges, and dying (which happened a lot). As a DM I really appreciated the encounter set ups, and the monsters were really fun to play, however the actual round by round had some 'fiddly bits' that I didn't expect, especially for first level. This game is definitely more complicated from the get go than 3e. I hope the complexity curve stays very flat as it progresses but we shall see.</p><p></p><p>Lot's of things to keep track of. Marking. Ongoing effects that need a save. Recharge abilities. The +2 to defenses from second wind. +2 attack from cleric buff, ect. You know how you're always forgetting that +1 AC from dodge? It's like that, but with everyone, every round. The game is just begging for some colored 1 inch tiddly-winks to put under minis to keep track of this stuff.</p><p></p><p>Three of my players aren't really used to expendable resources, the former ranger, rogue, and fighter. Here they are keeping track of encounter and daily powers, second wind, action points, and healing surges. I'm not saying any of these things are bad, in and of themselves, but it's definitely a step up in complexity, and that's coming from a 16th level 3e game. I guess that surprised me, coming from a 1st level game.</p><p></p><p>On the other hand, the monsters were a joy to run. They didn't have a lot of that stuff to keep track of. No healing surges and stuff, just a few distinctive abilites they could use a lot. I mean when's the last time you heard 'Arg, those damn kobolds, they're so weasly! Stand still!" or "OMG, that halfling with the sling is killing us!"</p><p></p><p>I gotta say these encounters were tough. Multiple people were taken down, and one may have died, depending on how the rules actually work. (She was one strike down when the combat ended, and the cleric was all out of healing, and people kept botching their heal checks. Could the cleric take 10 on the heal? Could she hit a tree to provide temporary hit points? Can an unconsious person use healing surges once the combat is over? That's what I ruled, though I did find it dramatic to have everyone pile on and try to heal her. She was less amused, after rolling what she considered a 'stability check' and being told she must continue to roll saves whist her incompetent comrades tried to revive her. Could they have aided the clerics skill check? <shrug>)</p><p></p><p>But man. There was, in a level 1 encounter, 2 brutes who each had more hp than any of the PCs and could take down a character in 2 hits. Plus 4 goons, a triple shot slinger, and oh yeah, the leader. There is a level 6 encounter in the first section of the adventure. I shudder to thing what that would be like for first level PCs.</p><p></p><p>The PCs abilities seemed really 'swingy'. That at-will magic missle doesn't seem so hot when you miss 3 times in a row. Or your sweet dragon breath does 1 damage. Or you miss with your daily power.</p><p></p><p>I'm still on the fence. I'm seeing a lot of stuff I like, but there are plenty of things I don't get yet. For example, removing iterative attacks is a way to cut down on die rolls at higher levels. But having AE spells attacks against a defense, you have first level characters rolling multiple attack dice a round. So have you really streamlined anything?</p><p></p><p>Plus I hate the fluff. All of it. Teiflings, Dragonborn, Alignment, Cosmology. "The shadowfell is a terrible place! But not really, there's some cools stuff in there too, maybe. But not this corner! It's baaad...oooh."</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="jaycrockett, post: 4247817, member: 29468"] Mixed reviews here. I ran my regular group through 3 encounters. I have 5 players so no problems there. This group has been playing 3e for 6 years together, so there were definitely a bunch of 'but this doesn't make sense' comments, mainly around hit points, healing surges, and dying (which happened a lot). As a DM I really appreciated the encounter set ups, and the monsters were really fun to play, however the actual round by round had some 'fiddly bits' that I didn't expect, especially for first level. This game is definitely more complicated from the get go than 3e. I hope the complexity curve stays very flat as it progresses but we shall see. Lot's of things to keep track of. Marking. Ongoing effects that need a save. Recharge abilities. The +2 to defenses from second wind. +2 attack from cleric buff, ect. You know how you're always forgetting that +1 AC from dodge? It's like that, but with everyone, every round. The game is just begging for some colored 1 inch tiddly-winks to put under minis to keep track of this stuff. Three of my players aren't really used to expendable resources, the former ranger, rogue, and fighter. Here they are keeping track of encounter and daily powers, second wind, action points, and healing surges. I'm not saying any of these things are bad, in and of themselves, but it's definitely a step up in complexity, and that's coming from a 16th level 3e game. I guess that surprised me, coming from a 1st level game. On the other hand, the monsters were a joy to run. They didn't have a lot of that stuff to keep track of. No healing surges and stuff, just a few distinctive abilites they could use a lot. I mean when's the last time you heard 'Arg, those damn kobolds, they're so weasly! Stand still!" or "OMG, that halfling with the sling is killing us!" I gotta say these encounters were tough. Multiple people were taken down, and one may have died, depending on how the rules actually work. (She was one strike down when the combat ended, and the cleric was all out of healing, and people kept botching their heal checks. Could the cleric take 10 on the heal? Could she hit a tree to provide temporary hit points? Can an unconsious person use healing surges once the combat is over? That's what I ruled, though I did find it dramatic to have everyone pile on and try to heal her. She was less amused, after rolling what she considered a 'stability check' and being told she must continue to roll saves whist her incompetent comrades tried to revive her. Could they have aided the clerics skill check? <shrug>) But man. There was, in a level 1 encounter, 2 brutes who each had more hp than any of the PCs and could take down a character in 2 hits. Plus 4 goons, a triple shot slinger, and oh yeah, the leader. There is a level 6 encounter in the first section of the adventure. I shudder to thing what that would be like for first level PCs. The PCs abilities seemed really 'swingy'. That at-will magic missle doesn't seem so hot when you miss 3 times in a row. Or your sweet dragon breath does 1 damage. Or you miss with your daily power. I'm still on the fence. I'm seeing a lot of stuff I like, but there are plenty of things I don't get yet. For example, removing iterative attacks is a way to cut down on die rolls at higher levels. But having AE spells attacks against a defense, you have first level characters rolling multiple attack dice a round. So have you really streamlined anything? Plus I hate the fluff. All of it. Teiflings, Dragonborn, Alignment, Cosmology. "The shadowfell is a terrible place! But not really, there's some cools stuff in there too, maybe. But not this corner! It's baaad...oooh." [/QUOTE]
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