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Keeping AoO for PC's, but removing AoO from enemies
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<blockquote data-quote="BookTenTiger" data-source="post: 8061458" data-attributes="member: 6685541"><p>Wow, you would think based on these replies that I was suggesting taking away something like chairs at the gaming table and forcing my players to stand the whole game. A lot of people are very attached to Enemy Attacks of Opportunity!</p><p></p><p>Upon further reflection, I don't think I'm going to implement this rule, but I really wish people had taken a more constructive approach to comments in this thread. Rather than saying things like:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Which honestly is just insulting and rude. This is not about me changing my players, this is about adjusting the rules of my game to encourage some tactics and discourage others. Please get your judgmental attitude out of this thread.</p><p></p><p>I appreciate more those who actually took this idea and examined it. Thank you to the rare few who actually responded with constructive ideas!</p><p></p><p>Now just for fun, I'm going to go through some of these comments and defend my idea.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I used to be all about this, especially back in 3rd Edition. I would carefully craft my enemies to be tailored just like PC's, making sure they had the requirements needed for feats, and so on.</p><p></p><p>4th Edition actually showed me that this was a big waste of time! Player Characters and Enemies have <em>vastly </em>different roles in combat, and will be around for much different amounts of time. A Player Character will be going through hundreds of rounds of combat in their lifetime. An enemy gets, what, three to five rounds before they are killed.</p><p></p><p>I mean, so many monsters in 5e get to break the rules! For example, a vampire spawn can grapple an opponent just by succeeding in a claw attack. Player Characters can also do so many more things than an enemy! I'll never have an enemy Intimidate a Player Character, because that's just not fun for the players. But it's fantastic when a PC intimidates an enemy!</p><p></p><p>In the original post, I was not seeking <em>balance</em>, I was seeking <em>fun. </em>Again, at my table, I have found that AoO's are fun when Player Characters do them, but not fun when Enemies do them. I'm looking for replacements that would be unique to enemies.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>All these problems can be solved by being upfront with a house rule. Any house rule will reward some styles of character creation and punish others. Simply telling the players "Enemies will no longer have AoO's. If this negatively effects your character's abilities, let's come up with another option" should solve it.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So what could I replace the enemy's AoO's with that would increase risk? Maybe something else they could do as a reaction to something other than movement?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Great! That's not true in my game. I bet there are also things that are fun in my game that are not fun for you.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Thank you for the constructive reply!</p><p></p><p>I agree that those are two big consequences. However... I like those consequences! Making it easier to run away from combat allows me to place more difficult enemies in spots around my campaign world. Especially for the campaign I'm currently running (a kind of remix of Curse of Strahd), the characters will be stumbling upon enemies that are way too powerful for them. I actually like the idea of them being more comfortable running away.</p><p></p><p>I am also fine with the characters moving around the board more to target certain enemies. In fact, focusing more on movement <em>could be</em> the kind of reaction I could give enemies. What about something like...</p><p></p><p><strong>Reaction: Shift</strong></p><p><strong>As a reaction to taking damage, an enemy may move up to its Dexterity score in feet.</strong> </p><p></p><p>That would be interesting!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't think this would fit my table. As I said, the players really enjoy having AoO's, but I find it's limiting <em>their </em>movement. As a DM, I have enemies move all the time, even if it provokes AoO's from the players. It's fun! But I find the players limit their movement due to AoO's, and it creates static combat.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Now that's an interesting idea! Taking out enemy AoO's, but replacing them with more Area Effects would be really neat. I already give almost all my enemies a ranged attack, so this would be a fun way to spice things up.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Okay! And if there weren't enemy AoO's, you would be able to learn other spells instead.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And to add to your point, if I want the players to know I'm not going to be making Attacks of Opportunity, then I can easily communicate that by telling them enemies will no longer have that option.</p><p></p><p>You know how the designers of 5e took out Delay so that players wouldn't have to consider whether to have their turn now or later? It saves time because it forces players to make a decision now. I'm finding that enemy Attacks of Opportunity add time I don't like to the game, because the time is not focused on Player Action, but instead Player Inaction.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="BookTenTiger, post: 8061458, member: 6685541"] Wow, you would think based on these replies that I was suggesting taking away something like chairs at the gaming table and forcing my players to stand the whole game. A lot of people are very attached to Enemy Attacks of Opportunity! Upon further reflection, I don't think I'm going to implement this rule, but I really wish people had taken a more constructive approach to comments in this thread. Rather than saying things like: Which honestly is just insulting and rude. This is not about me changing my players, this is about adjusting the rules of my game to encourage some tactics and discourage others. Please get your judgmental attitude out of this thread. I appreciate more those who actually took this idea and examined it. Thank you to the rare few who actually responded with constructive ideas! Now just for fun, I'm going to go through some of these comments and defend my idea. I used to be all about this, especially back in 3rd Edition. I would carefully craft my enemies to be tailored just like PC's, making sure they had the requirements needed for feats, and so on. 4th Edition actually showed me that this was a big waste of time! Player Characters and Enemies have [I]vastly [/I]different roles in combat, and will be around for much different amounts of time. A Player Character will be going through hundreds of rounds of combat in their lifetime. An enemy gets, what, three to five rounds before they are killed. I mean, so many monsters in 5e get to break the rules! For example, a vampire spawn can grapple an opponent just by succeeding in a claw attack. Player Characters can also do so many more things than an enemy! I'll never have an enemy Intimidate a Player Character, because that's just not fun for the players. But it's fantastic when a PC intimidates an enemy! In the original post, I was not seeking [I]balance[/I], I was seeking [I]fun. [/I]Again, at my table, I have found that AoO's are fun when Player Characters do them, but not fun when Enemies do them. I'm looking for replacements that would be unique to enemies. All these problems can be solved by being upfront with a house rule. Any house rule will reward some styles of character creation and punish others. Simply telling the players "Enemies will no longer have AoO's. If this negatively effects your character's abilities, let's come up with another option" should solve it. So what could I replace the enemy's AoO's with that would increase risk? Maybe something else they could do as a reaction to something other than movement? Great! That's not true in my game. I bet there are also things that are fun in my game that are not fun for you. Thank you for the constructive reply! I agree that those are two big consequences. However... I like those consequences! Making it easier to run away from combat allows me to place more difficult enemies in spots around my campaign world. Especially for the campaign I'm currently running (a kind of remix of Curse of Strahd), the characters will be stumbling upon enemies that are way too powerful for them. I actually like the idea of them being more comfortable running away. I am also fine with the characters moving around the board more to target certain enemies. In fact, focusing more on movement [I]could be[/I] the kind of reaction I could give enemies. What about something like... [B]Reaction: Shift As a reaction to taking damage, an enemy may move up to its Dexterity score in feet.[/B] That would be interesting! I don't think this would fit my table. As I said, the players really enjoy having AoO's, but I find it's limiting [I]their [/I]movement. As a DM, I have enemies move all the time, even if it provokes AoO's from the players. It's fun! But I find the players limit their movement due to AoO's, and it creates static combat. Now that's an interesting idea! Taking out enemy AoO's, but replacing them with more Area Effects would be really neat. I already give almost all my enemies a ranged attack, so this would be a fun way to spice things up. Okay! And if there weren't enemy AoO's, you would be able to learn other spells instead. And to add to your point, if I want the players to know I'm not going to be making Attacks of Opportunity, then I can easily communicate that by telling them enemies will no longer have that option. You know how the designers of 5e took out Delay so that players wouldn't have to consider whether to have their turn now or later? It saves time because it forces players to make a decision now. I'm finding that enemy Attacks of Opportunity add time I don't like to the game, because the time is not focused on Player Action, but instead Player Inaction. [/QUOTE]
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