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<blockquote data-quote="VanguardHero" data-source="post: 8428637" data-attributes="member: 7030089">Powergaming is just on entirely different scales between them. The ceiling is lower, true, but it's also a lot easier to stumble into it. F to the Four Elements Monk in a party with a Chronurgist Wizard, or a Bladesinger Wizard, or...any Wizard really, even one who decided just not to take a Subclass. The sheer versatility that making o5e 'Accessible' gave to casters while simultaneously gutting Martials of anything effective or interesting made the balance feel worse, because it was a lot more likely to come up accidentally. &quot;Neo-Vancian&quot; casting removed the preparedness from prepared casters while Ritual Casting lets them save nearly all slots for combat means a smart Wizard preps Fireball and Lightning Bolt, intentionally overpowered spells, is covered for combat, and then useful utility spells. Wizards can cast Fly and negate the usefulness of anyone who specializes in Acrobatics, Druids can cast Pass Without Trace and make anyone specialized in Stealth redundant, higher level slot but same for Telekinesis and Athletics. That's 3 of the 4 Skills Martials get the stats for just replaced by a single spell each. None of those are obscure weird combos, they are just spells a new player can look at and go &quot;Ooh that looks useful&quot;. Which is, on the whole, much more problematic than clearly bad faith broken builds in 3.5 where you can shut it down by having Zehir spontaneously appear before Pun-Pun says his second &quot;Pazuzu&quot;, or before the Wizard finishes compiling all the components for Locate City Bomb.I see this being less of a problem in Level Up since all Martials benefit a lot from Short Rests, especially Fighter and Adept, which hopefully means standard play leans more towards the Adventuring Day of 6-8 combats that o5e Casters were actually designed for.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="VanguardHero, post: 8428637, member: 7030089"] Powergaming is just on entirely different scales between them. The ceiling is lower, true, but it's also a lot easier to stumble into it. F to the Four Elements Monk in a party with a Chronurgist Wizard, or a Bladesinger Wizard, or...any Wizard really, even one who decided just not to take a Subclass. The sheer versatility that making o5e 'Accessible' gave to casters while simultaneously gutting Martials of anything effective or interesting made the balance feel worse, because it was a lot more likely to come up accidentally. "Neo-Vancian" casting removed the preparedness from prepared casters while Ritual Casting lets them save nearly all slots for combat means a smart Wizard preps Fireball and Lightning Bolt, intentionally overpowered spells, is covered for combat, and then useful utility spells. Wizards can cast Fly and negate the usefulness of anyone who specializes in Acrobatics, Druids can cast Pass Without Trace and make anyone specialized in Stealth redundant, higher level slot but same for Telekinesis and Athletics. That's 3 of the 4 Skills Martials get the stats for just replaced by a single spell each. None of those are obscure weird combos, they are just spells a new player can look at and go "Ooh that looks useful". Which is, on the whole, much more problematic than clearly bad faith broken builds in 3.5 where you can shut it down by having Zehir spontaneously appear before Pun-Pun says his second "Pazuzu", or before the Wizard finishes compiling all the components for Locate City Bomb. I see this being less of a problem in Level Up since all Martials benefit a lot from Short Rests, especially Fighter and Adept, which hopefully means standard play leans more towards the Adventuring Day of 6-8 combats that o5e Casters were actually designed for. [/QUOTE]

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