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Keeping the Party Awake
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<blockquote data-quote="N'raac" data-source="post: 6036724" data-attributes="member: 6681948"><p>I'm amazed how many people think Rope Trick means the party is perfectly safe, come what may.</p><p></p><p>Seems to me the OP's scenario implies the PC's are being stalked and likely spied on, so I would expect they can watch the PC's climb up the rope and have a pretty good idea where to cast a Dispel. They do, of course, need the Dispel.</p><p></p><p>Or they can simply surround the area with archers and wait for the PC's to emerge, one at a time, to climb down the rope. They can do a lot outside the field of that 3' x 5' window equivalent. Assuming your PC's are on the ball, they can't, say, build a roaring bonfire right under your safe haven, or dig a big pity full of spikes under there. They can wait until that rope comes down and try to pull it down, shake it wildly to make safe climbing tough, cut it, climb up it, etc. If they have the means to reach the same level, they can also pass through that space to your hidey hole (wasn't there a Druid involved here? Don't they take on forms like birds and bats?) </p><p></p><p>Coming back to that emergence, how high do you send the rope up? Only ONE person can climb the rope at a time. DC5 is pretty easy, so you might move it up to DC 10 to climb at half your normal speed (DC 5 for 1/4), but that's still at least a full round to get from the top to the bottom. A full round during which you have no DEX modifier (Rogue grins in delight!). Or you could just leap down - 3d6 damage isn't so bad, but now you're probably prone. Standing up means AoO's.</p><p></p><p>So maybe hauling in that firewood makes sense - either you start coming out, or we build a huge bonfire under your Rope Trick. Once it's lit, we can keep feeding it until your spell expires.</p><p></p><p>Thinking on it, nothing would prevent a large group of archers firing arrows at the general area. Some will pass through the portal (<strong>spells</strong> don't pass through. People carrying arrows pass through, so it seems reasonable arrows can pass through). Unlikely to hit the concealed targets within, but probably makes a good sleep pretty unlikely.</p><p></p><p>Arguably, the space can be reached only by the rope - in which case the flying druid, arrow fire, etc. tactics will all fail. In that case, waiting until half the party climbs up (or the first guy pops out), then attacking to damage the rope itself, burn it, pull it free, etc. seems like a great tactic. Now the rest are stuck there until the spell expires. It seems more likely someone familiar with the spell itself, rather than some goblins lead by a druid, would figure that one out.</p><p></p><p>I assume none of your characters use Bags of Holding, Handy Haversacks or similar items, as you can't access their contents (which, for most PC's, tend to include food, water and bedding - not to mention spellbooks) while in the Rope Trick's extradimensional space. Of course, you can always take them out before climbing up, but then you have to carry them back down again, likely slowed due to encumbrance. And good luck climbing down with a spell book or two - you need both hands to climb.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>To me, the intent of that rule is to say "you have a strange dream and awaken, rolling over and going back to sleep" does not mean the 8 hours start over. It doesn't mean you can just lean back and relax in any stressful situation and lie quietly, awake and perceiving all that goes on around you, and still be considered resting/sleeping.</p><p></p><p>Mind you, if I ruled it did work, I'd also have to rule most spellcasters are aware of this, and can advise the archers to target characters who stay on the ground, prone, with a few arrows to make sure. I think taking damage would be sufficient to disrupt one's sleep - you may not attack, but that does not mean you are not "in combat". </p><p></p><p>Of course, the wizards staying quietly on the ground precludes the warriors chasing down the enemy. So the gobins can hide in the trees and snipe to their black little hearts' content. Fire an arrow or two; move somewhere else. Even if two goblins each fire one arrow a minute, hitting with 1 arrow in 5 (so they need a 17+ to hit), that means a single target gets hit 24 times an hour for an average of 3.5 damage (assuming little d6 arrows or 1d4 sling bullets with a +1 STR bonus), so 84 hp an hour. Don't forget that the cleric cannot recover any spells used within 8 hours of his usual spell recovery time.</p><p></p><p>Oh, one guard chases the goblins into the brush while the other stands watch over the wizard? OK - that's the time the Druid chooses to summon those wolves, and Speak with Animals to instruct them to target the guys lying on the ground.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="N'raac, post: 6036724, member: 6681948"] I'm amazed how many people think Rope Trick means the party is perfectly safe, come what may. Seems to me the OP's scenario implies the PC's are being stalked and likely spied on, so I would expect they can watch the PC's climb up the rope and have a pretty good idea where to cast a Dispel. They do, of course, need the Dispel. Or they can simply surround the area with archers and wait for the PC's to emerge, one at a time, to climb down the rope. They can do a lot outside the field of that 3' x 5' window equivalent. Assuming your PC's are on the ball, they can't, say, build a roaring bonfire right under your safe haven, or dig a big pity full of spikes under there. They can wait until that rope comes down and try to pull it down, shake it wildly to make safe climbing tough, cut it, climb up it, etc. If they have the means to reach the same level, they can also pass through that space to your hidey hole (wasn't there a Druid involved here? Don't they take on forms like birds and bats?) Coming back to that emergence, how high do you send the rope up? Only ONE person can climb the rope at a time. DC5 is pretty easy, so you might move it up to DC 10 to climb at half your normal speed (DC 5 for 1/4), but that's still at least a full round to get from the top to the bottom. A full round during which you have no DEX modifier (Rogue grins in delight!). Or you could just leap down - 3d6 damage isn't so bad, but now you're probably prone. Standing up means AoO's. So maybe hauling in that firewood makes sense - either you start coming out, or we build a huge bonfire under your Rope Trick. Once it's lit, we can keep feeding it until your spell expires. Thinking on it, nothing would prevent a large group of archers firing arrows at the general area. Some will pass through the portal ([B]spells[/B] don't pass through. People carrying arrows pass through, so it seems reasonable arrows can pass through). Unlikely to hit the concealed targets within, but probably makes a good sleep pretty unlikely. Arguably, the space can be reached only by the rope - in which case the flying druid, arrow fire, etc. tactics will all fail. In that case, waiting until half the party climbs up (or the first guy pops out), then attacking to damage the rope itself, burn it, pull it free, etc. seems like a great tactic. Now the rest are stuck there until the spell expires. It seems more likely someone familiar with the spell itself, rather than some goblins lead by a druid, would figure that one out. I assume none of your characters use Bags of Holding, Handy Haversacks or similar items, as you can't access their contents (which, for most PC's, tend to include food, water and bedding - not to mention spellbooks) while in the Rope Trick's extradimensional space. Of course, you can always take them out before climbing up, but then you have to carry them back down again, likely slowed due to encumbrance. And good luck climbing down with a spell book or two - you need both hands to climb. To me, the intent of that rule is to say "you have a strange dream and awaken, rolling over and going back to sleep" does not mean the 8 hours start over. It doesn't mean you can just lean back and relax in any stressful situation and lie quietly, awake and perceiving all that goes on around you, and still be considered resting/sleeping. Mind you, if I ruled it did work, I'd also have to rule most spellcasters are aware of this, and can advise the archers to target characters who stay on the ground, prone, with a few arrows to make sure. I think taking damage would be sufficient to disrupt one's sleep - you may not attack, but that does not mean you are not "in combat". Of course, the wizards staying quietly on the ground precludes the warriors chasing down the enemy. So the gobins can hide in the trees and snipe to their black little hearts' content. Fire an arrow or two; move somewhere else. Even if two goblins each fire one arrow a minute, hitting with 1 arrow in 5 (so they need a 17+ to hit), that means a single target gets hit 24 times an hour for an average of 3.5 damage (assuming little d6 arrows or 1d4 sling bullets with a +1 STR bonus), so 84 hp an hour. Don't forget that the cleric cannot recover any spells used within 8 hours of his usual spell recovery time. Oh, one guard chases the goblins into the brush while the other stands watch over the wizard? OK - that's the time the Druid chooses to summon those wolves, and Speak with Animals to instruct them to target the guys lying on the ground. [/QUOTE]
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