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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hellcow" data-source="post: 1640614" data-attributes="member: 15800">Well, first off, I have to agree with the other folks: Artificers are really going to want to pump up Use Magic Device. They don't have to put all their feats into it -- in one of my campaigns, the artificer went for Magical Aptitude and Point Blank Shot -- but there's a lot to be said for doing so. Just as a fighter is going to focus on combat feats and wizards will draw on metamagic feats, an Artificer should seriously look at Skill Focus and Magical Aptitude. With that said, a focused artificer can get very good with UMD. At, say, 3rd level, any artificer could have the following:6 ranks Use Magic Device5 ranks Spellcraft14 CharismaMagical AptitudeSkill Focus (UMD)Creation Feats: Scribe Scroll, Brew Potion, Craft Wondrous ItemArtisan BonusThis would provide a base +13 UMD, +15 if using wondrous items, +17 if using scrolls. At this level, it would be odd for the character to be using scrolls of spells above 2nd level, which would put the DC at 23 -- not bad odds with a +17 modifier. At the same time, you say that a wand could have a DC of up to 40. From my read of UMD, wands have a flat use DC of 20; the spell level is not a factor. *Scrolls* are an issue, and yes, a scroll with a caster level of 20 will have a DC of 40. But with a caster level of 20, this is some of the most powerful magic on the planet. And if the Artificer is a 20th-level artificer who's kept pace with his UMD, we're talking about a +34 UMD bonus, not counting any increase in Charisma, Charisma-enhancing items, skill enhancement, or cross-class Decipher Script. If he's kept his focus and is using items that match his level, he should be fine. If he's working outside his level, it will be more difficult. Well, at 3rd level the artificer can't create a wand, so the idea that he should be able to use it because he can create it doesn't add up. 7th level is when he automatically gains the feat, and at that point he can have a total UMD modifier of +19 for Wands (assuming he hasn't increased Charisma)... which against a DC fixed at 20 is pretty good odds. Below that, yes, it's a challenge -- but even the 3rd level character with a +13 UMD has a better that 50% chance of getting a wand to work. One could argue that the rogue should have a greater edge over the artificer when it comes to disabling devices or picking locks. Both have the potential to do either task -- use a magic item or pick a lock. The question is, which are you going to focus on? If the rogue dedicates his character idea to being able to use magic items, buys the feats, invests the skill points -- I'm happy to let him almost match the artificer (since the artificer will *still* have the edge from his Artisan bonus). Likewise, the artificer *could* match the rogue's lockpicking skills if that's where he puts his points -- but that will keep him from investing them in crafting abilities. There's the potential of the character, and then there's the logical point spread; my guess is that the typical artificer will be much better with UMD than the typical rogue, but that's a choice he makes. The other thing to remember is that UMD is a cross-class skill for almost every class. The fact that it's already a class skill for the artificer is a huge advantage in this field. In a sense, the artificer is like an auto mechanic, while the rogue with UMD is a car thief. Both know how to hotwire cars if they have to -- the artificer because he knows how they're designed, the rogue because he's learned the tricks of his trade. But any time the artificer wants to use a car without the keys, he still has to hotwire it, and that's still a chore; he can't just slap the car on the hood and make it start. The artificer's specialty is making magic items, and that gives him access to the ability to use them -- it doesn't automatically allow him to do it. I'll also note that UMD is extremely important for spell storing item -- so the feats are definitely a worthwhile investment, whether you get them right away or later in life.</blockquote>

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